Living off of your winnings

[Dude]

I am living proof that it is possible to make a living with a 10k bankroll, albeit not a very good living. However, the formula you propose does not make sense to me. As the first reply states,

recipe for disaster.

I started with 10k and added to it every time I had a profit. If I made 1,000 in a weekend of play I would use $250 to pay bills and $750 to add to the bankroll. If you only have 10k as I did when I started, you are going to have to look for amazing games and use cvcx to work out your betting strategy. The simulation will tell you what your avg./hr. will be. Even with some of the amazing games I have found, like a double deck delt down to less than half a deck, stand s17, double any2,double after split, I still can't get to $42/hr with $10,000 bankroll without taking on too much risk if the minimum bet is $25. I wish you luck. It can be done but take the bishop's advice and practice twice as much as you play or more. I use cvbj and wouldn't consider playing with the money i need to eat unless I could get through 1,000 hands with no mistakes in play or betting and I make sure I am distracted by my wife reminding me of all the home projects I have neglected and the TV blaring.

[SiMi]

Dude

Very interesting post! I think it can be done with a small bankroll, but it ain't easy and you need some luck and extreme discipline, IMHO.

I use a BJ-playing sim and practice my a$$ off with it and find spousal interruptions very helpful for the first time in my life! I have an actual table set up with all the crap: chips, decks, discard tray, shoe, felt, etc.

I have written computer programs to drill myself on strategy with different rules and penetration and tricky hands (based on errors), counting (RC and TC), insurance, playing 2 spots, deck estimation and TC/Bet calculations, etc. Today, I am working on a hefty program for back counting which will gradually grow into a full playing sim a la CVBJ. Writing these programs has caused me to deal with many issues in a much deeper way than I would have seen otherwise. Peter Griffin's book is getting easier to understand...

I have reinvested all my winnings to the bankroll because I can live off other resources, luckily. It turns out I could have eked out some semblance of a meager living off the winnings from the initial bankroll but, WHO KNEW? I couldn't risk it. I'm getting a trustworthy team member for the first time, sometime after Christmas. This will increase the B/R and decrease variance (I hope). Should be very interesting but I will watch closely, as you can imagine.

I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop on EV because I'm way ahead of expectation for this year, but I watch everything like a hawk and look for EVERY advantage I can get to legally try to hold off that day. I read constantly. I'm not down on people who write new books because 1 idea can be worth a crap-load of money even if the author didn't intend to convey that idea to me!

I don't play more than 2 hours (tops) at any one time and I'm careful to practice a LOT immediately before each session and always play in tip-top shape, mentally. I have a plan going in and I stick to it. Discipline is HUGE to me. Cover is also critical. I think about it all the time...

If I'm not feeling sharp, I don't play that day. If I feel tired or make an error while I'm playing, or something bad happens (e.g., drunk at table gets security involved), I call it a day. It's too easy to blow a load of profit in just a couple of hands. As far as I'm concerned, you better KNOW your big bets are correct.

There's a lot more but...

[Dude]

Hi SiMi

Thanks for the reply. I agree with everything you said especially about reading as much as possible. I think I even got some ideas from bad blackjack books, of which there are plenty. I have read well over a dozen of the great ones and need to get back to the "library" since that barely scratches the surface of what is out there. Thanks for the reminder. I've been lucky to have found casinos where I can play for 6 hours or more and not get backed off. I've found that is impossible in a place like Vegas where they rudely backed me off one time in 30 minutes and my biggest bet was less than $100. I do use some cover but I agree with Blackwood in terms of not spending too much money on cover and less with Schlesinger's advise to win as much as possible while still being welcome back (paraphrased).

May the felt be with you,
Dude

[SiMi]

Darth-Dude,

As to cover... I do NOT make stupid plays or spend anything serious at all on cover. I should have clarified. I meant that I work hard on other aspects of cover that cost nothing in terms of betting and dollars and cents, if you know what I mean...

Six hours is a long pull to me.
Most impressive. Stani-Wong has taught you well!

[paymypush]

I am living proof that it is possible to make a living with a 10k bankroll, albeit not a very good living. However, the formula you propose does not make sense to me. As the first reply states, I started with 10k and added to it every time I had a profit. If I made 1,000 in a weekend of play I would use $250 to pay bills and $750 to add to the bankroll. If you only have 10k as I did when I started, you are going to have to look for amazing games and use cvcx to work out your betting strategy. The simulation will tell you what your avg./hr. will be. Even with some of the amazing games I have found, like a double deck delt down to less than half a deck, stand s17, double any2,double after split, I still can't get to $42/hr with $10,000 bankroll without taking on too much risk if the minimum bet is $25. I wish you luck. It can be done but take the bishop's advice and practice twice as much as you play or more. I use cvbj and wouldn't consider playing with the money i need to eat unless I could get through 1,000 hands with no mistakes in play or betting and I make sure I am distracted by my wife reminding me of all the home projects I have neglected and the TV blaring.

How long have you been playing with your current bankroll? Tell us about any dry spells that you have suffered through. Surely there have been some.

[Dude]

How long have you been playing with your current bankroll? Tell us about any dry spells that you have suffered through. Surely there have been some.

PayMyPush

First, great user name! I could have quite a long post on the subject of your name alone but will restrain myself. My current bankroll is more than 10 k as I have been adding to it but its been a little less than a year since I started playing full time. Truthfully a little less than a year since my third attempt at playing full time. The whole story could fill a book and maybe some day it will. The short version is that I started about 8 years ago somewhat by chance with too little cash and even less knowledge or practice. I don't remember how much money I had. It may have actually been close to 10,000 but since I had 10 times more confidence than ability or knowledge it was only through luck that I survived a year before going back to a full time job. I tried again with more knowledge and skill but less money and once again decided to get a J O B. In fact, I had less than $5,000 and still managed to survive without losing my house for 18 months before throwing in the towel. This time I think I have just barely enough of both. Even when I was clueless I have never had more than 2 losing months in a row and have never had a negative year. The trouble was always in making enough to live on. When you're doing this for a living you quickly realize that even a profitable month might as well be a loss if it's not profitable enough to pay the mortgage. For me the most important thing is finding the best games especially in terms of penetration which we all know is king. Of course hard work in terms of practice and constantly reading anything from the great ones and then re-reading those books goes without saying.

[paymypush]

Dude, are you on the road a lot?

[Hsiaodi]

Deleted. Not sure what I really want to say

[Dude]

Dude, are you on the road a lot?

PayMyPush

Not really. Depends on your definition of on the road. I am home most nights but I live in the midwest so its not like I can get to a casino in 15 minutes unless I went to the same one every day and that wouldn't last too long. I better not go into more detail than that.

[biggg]

I have seen the sims...all I would say is if the s*** ever hit the fan and I had to do this as a source of income I would want 200 max bets plus six months expenses and I would definitely have to be playing at least chunky green. Gambling for a living is just way different than playing for fun and you really want to be able to lose 50 max bets and not be worried as this happens all the time.

I post this in every thread but I can't emphasize enough the importance of finding at least one non bj source of gambling income and I don't mean just hole card plays. Good luck.

[ZeeBabar]

The biggest part for me, a part time player, is conning myself about what my BR was. Just because I had $$$ that were not needed for living did not mean I could consider myself as having it all as BR. I learned that my play started getting affected as soon as I lost $1000 and I quit when I went a weekend and lost $2000. Thus, I realized my BR was not what I had in my bank, it was what I was willing to lose, $2000.

i learned after having a max bet of only $200 out, getting a pair of 8's, splitting those to have $400 out and then receiving a 3 on one, doubling down and having $600 out and then losing all three in one hand that I had lowered my max bet bad for the rest of the evening.

After learning the count and the indices and practicing and swimming, we have to learn our mental tolerance/reaction levels by playing and going through a losing streak or three before we start thinking about playing full time. The hardest thing to learn, accept and work on is ourself, win consistently at $25 min. games for a couple of years straight, go through at least a time or two where you lose 6-10 max bets in a row and then make a decision for BJ as a career.

i know, I can never be a full time player. I have opted to keep training and wait till my retirement to play a bit more with a goal of generating $500 a month.

[steveistheman84]

i'd say once you're able to live off half of your ev that you generate, and are betting 1/8 kelly, you should be fine. in this case, you'd have to double your unit size, and $50 units at a 1/8 kelly br would be around a br of 200k. this is a way that will pay expenses and still grow your br. when 100% of your ev gets removed for everyday expenses, your ror is 100%.