Living off of your winnings

[SauceBoss]

Hello all (and Happy Thanksgiving BTW!)

I'm relatively new to the game. I'm mastered BS, but still practicing my card counting skills until I can do it in my sleep. I've also read about 5-6 books on the subject by the masters (Wong, Snyder, etc.) Before I got the bug, I have only played occasionally just for fun. Maybe drop a couple hundred bucks a few times a year at the local casino.

Anyways, something I have yet to come across that Im hoping you guys can answer, or at least point me in the right direction. How exactly does one "make a living" playing blackjack? What I mean by that is, at what point and at what amount/percentage do you start using your winnings to "pay the bills" so to speak.

I'm looking for both a mathimatical, maybe industry standard approach, as well as some stories from people that have actually done it.

The reason I am asking is this: I plan on retiring, or at least semi-retiring in the next 4-6 years. I will have more time to go to the casino as well as an actual bankroll to play with. I would like to be able.to supplement my income by about $500/wk playing blackjack.

These are my initial thoughts:

1) Starting bankroll of $10,000

2) $10,000 ÷ 400 units = $25 minimum bet

3) $25 min. bet x 1.68 unit per hour win rate =$42/hr.

4) $500 goal ÷ $42/hr win rate = 11.90 hours one must play to achieve this result.

I know this is all hypothetical but it sounds reasonable to me. Please let me know where I'm right/wrong, if I'm on the track, how my math should be different, and other things I should consider. Please dont flame me, I'm new and this is why I am asking. We all have to start somewhere.

Thanks in advance for everyones input

[Freightman]

Hello all (and Happy Thanksgiving BTW!)

I'm relatively new to the game. I'm mastered BS, but still practicing my card counting skills until I can do it in my sleep. I've also read about 5-6 books on the subject by the masters (Wong, Snyder, etc.) Before I got the bug, I have only played occasionally just for fun. Maybe drop a couple hundred bucks a few times a year at the local casino.
Anyways, something I have yet to come across that Im hoping you guys can answer, or at least point me in the right direction. How exactly does one "make a living" playing blackjack? What I mean by that is, at what point and at what amount/percentage do you start using your winnings to "pay the bills" so to speak.

I'm looking for both a mathimatical, maybe industry standard approach, as well as some stories from people that have actually done it.

The reason I am asking is this: I plan on retiring, or at least semi-retiring in the next 4-6 years. I will have more time to go to the casino as well as an actual bankroll to play with. I would like to be able.to supplement my income by about $500/wk playing blackjack.

These are my initial thoughts:

1) Starting bankroll of $10,000

2) $10,000 ÷ 400 units = $25 minimum bet

3) $25 min. bet x 1.68 unit per hour win rate =$42/hr.

4) $500 goal ÷ $42/hr win rate = 11.90 hours one must play to achieve this result.

I know this is all hypothetical but it sounds reasonable to me. Please let me know where I'm right/wrong, if I'm on the track, how my math should be different, and other things I should consider. Please dont flame me, I'm new and this is why I am asking. We all have to start somewhere.

Thanks in advance for everyones input

Recipe for disaster - will sim later

[Three]

You need a big BR to live off your winnings. I am sure others will elaborate but the large and sustained downswings will destroy your BR without the support of all of the winnings if your BR is not extremely large.

[ZenKinG]

Best way to play blackjack full time, would be to have a job on the side. Job can sustain the variance and allow you to play bigger stakes. Of course if you're wealthy you wont need a job if you have about 100-300k saved up. There's also another reason for having a job and playing blackjack on the side, but I wont go into it as it is illegal LOL

[SauceBoss]

I understand you need a large bankroll to live off of your winnings. What I'm trying to figure out is exactly how large that bankroll must be. I'm sure it has to be a correlation to how much you need to live. So what's the formula?

Obviously someone who wants to make $100,000/yr playing blackjack is going to need a larger bankroll than someone that is looking to make about $24,000/yr. or even someone that just says, I want to make an extra $1,000/mo spending money. But I'm guessing the formula would be the same.

[paymypush]

A ballpark figure that comes up often is a bankroll of 100 max bets. Mine is much more. This is not written in stone but is merely a starting point. It can be customized for you by a sim program using all your specific information.

[bigplayer]

Risk of ruin figures assume 100% reinvestment of winnings. If you live off all of your winnings you are 100% guaranteed to bust out. If you play to a very very low risk of ruin you can live off a good portion of your winnings assuming you are willing to replace your losses before you take any profits.

[Intermediate]

Look around in these forums and others. You'll see it depends on where you live, how much travel you need to do, your playing style, other non counting AP opportunities, etc.You'll find at least one person in Vegas who plays full time (isn't retired) on a BR of $100k+. You have to consider the variance, not just the EV, and your ability to stay under the radar, or at least stay within tolerance levels of the stores you play. Just saying there's more to it then the math....

[Jabberwocky]

Best way to play blackjack full time, would be to have a job on the side. Job can sustain the variance and allow you to play bigger stakes. Of course if you're wealthy you wont need a job if you have about 100-300k saved up. There's also another reason for having a job and playing blackjack on the side, but I wont go into it as it is illegal LOL

Nothing is illegal just ant-policy.

[mofungoo]

I would say that in order to make a living gambling you would need to have more than blackjack in your arsenal of AP moves. Poker, tournaments, coupons, hole carding, and sports betting are some of the other things that are profitable opportunities. The problem with blackjack is the fluctuation in results is severe to the extent that the cash flow is unreliable. A steady income is what you seem to want but that is not going to happen. It is possible you can have losing streaks that last for hundreds of hours no matter how much you study and practice.

[Dude]

I am living proof that it is possible to make a living with a 10k bankroll, albeit not a very good living. However, the formula you propose does not make sense to me. As the first reply states,

recipe for disaster.

I started with 10k and added to it every time I had a profit. If I made 1,000 in a weekend of play I would use $250 to pay bills and $750 to add to the bankroll. If you only have 10k as I did when I started, you are going to have to look for amazing games and use cvcx to work out your betting strategy. The simulation will tell you what your avg./hr. will be. Even with some of the amazing games I have found, like a double deck delt down to less than half a deck, stand s17, double any2,double after split, I still can't get to $42/hr with $10,000 bankroll without taking on too much risk if the minimum bet is $25. I wish you luck. It can be done but take the bishop's advice and practice twice as much as you play or more. I use cvbj and wouldn't consider playing with the money i need to eat unless I could get through 1,000 hands with no mistakes in play or betting and I make sure I am distracted by my wife reminding me of all the home projects I have neglected and the TV blaring.

[SiMi]

Dude

Very interesting post! I think it can be done with a small bankroll, but it ain't easy and you need some luck and extreme discipline, IMHO.

I use a BJ-playing sim and practice my a$$ off with it and find spousal interruptions very helpful for the first time in my life! I have an actual table set up with all the crap: chips, decks, discard tray, shoe, felt, etc.

I have written computer programs to drill myself on strategy with different rules and penetration and tricky hands (based on errors), counting (RC and TC), insurance, playing 2 spots, deck estimation and TC/Bet calculations, etc. Today, I am working on a hefty program for back counting which will gradually grow into a full playing sim a la CVBJ. Writing these programs has caused me to deal with many issues in a much deeper way than I would have seen otherwise. Peter Griffin's book is getting easier to understand...

I have reinvested all my winnings to the bankroll because I can live off other resources, luckily. It turns out I could have eked out some semblance of a meager living off the winnings from the initial bankroll but, WHO KNEW? I couldn't risk it. I'm getting a trustworthy team member for the first time, sometime after Christmas. This will increase the B/R and decrease variance (I hope). Should be very interesting but I will watch closely, as you can imagine.

I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop on EV because I'm way ahead of expectation for this year, but I watch everything like a hawk and look for EVERY advantage I can get to legally try to hold off that day. I read constantly. I'm not down on people who write new books because 1 idea can be worth a crap-load of money even if the author didn't intend to convey that idea to me!

I don't play more than 2 hours (tops) at any one time and I'm careful to practice a LOT immediately before each session and always play in tip-top shape, mentally. I have a plan going in and I stick to it. Discipline is HUGE to me. Cover is also critical. I think about it all the time...

If I'm not feeling sharp, I don't play that day. If I feel tired or make an error while I'm playing, or something bad happens (e.g., drunk at table gets security involved), I call it a day. It's too easy to blow a load of profit in just a couple of hands. As far as I'm concerned, you better KNOW your big bets are correct.

There's a lot more but...

[Dude]

Hi SiMi

Thanks for the reply. I agree with everything you said especially about reading as much as possible. I think I even got some ideas from bad blackjack books, of which there are plenty. I have read well over a dozen of the great ones and need to get back to the "library" since that barely scratches the surface of what is out there. Thanks for the reminder. I've been lucky to have found casinos where I can play for 6 hours or more and not get backed off. I've found that is impossible in a place like Vegas where they rudely backed me off one time in 30 minutes and my biggest bet was less than $100. I do use some cover but I agree with Blackwood in terms of not spending too much money on cover and less with Schlesinger's advise to win as much as possible while still being welcome back (paraphrased).

May the felt be with you,
Dude