Ideal number of player on a table

[deviru]

It seems like i lose more when i play by myself than playing with 2 - 4 people. I tested this on a simulator for number of hours and it happened the same thing. Anyone have noticed this or just me? Is there ideal number of player on the table?

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[mhb]

i don't see any logic to the idea that on wins more with other players at the table.
if anything other players will tend to moderate the count when it gets to you, but this should even out.

i prefer to play head to head since then the game goes faster and at my speed. i don't have to wait for others to bet and play their hands.

[Joker21]

If you are just playing basic strategy then the more players at the table the better since you are getting less hands per hour and thus losing slower. If you are playing with an advantage then the opposite is the case and heads up is ideal since you are seeing more hands/hour

[Jabberwocky]

If you are just playing basic strategy then the more players at the table the better since you are getting less hands per hour and thus losing slower. If you are playing with an advantage then the opposite is the case and heads up is ideal since you are seeing more hands/hour

The fundamental theme is if you are trying to win, you don't want competition.

[bebe]

You will loose more in a negative count in a play all heads up because of more hands per hour. Wong out of negatives

[Freightman]

You will lose more in a negative count in a play all heads up because of more hands per hour. Wong out of negatives

Where this a shortage of tables, it is not a good idea to Wong out of a heads up game. The shoe will still be there when u finish your phone call or bathroom break. Just learn your negative indexes, grind through it and make sure you have enough spread to cover it.

Variance is higher on a heads up game for several reasons - you do get all of the negatives, but you also get all of the positives as well - and if you get all of the positives - you also get the variance that comes with it - in other words, you don't win all of the hands just because u have the advantage, and since your bets are larger, so will be your variance.

If u run some sims, you will likely find a very slight difference in the win rate per 100 hands between a heads up vs a multi player table. , essentially, you could even consider them to be identical. So, if your win rate per hand is identical, and you can double or triple your hands per hour in a heads up game, you've obviously given yourself a pay raise.

[Freightman]

Should also have added- a fast counter with a fast dealer is a thing of beauty - add ASM's into the equation, and you are up to 300 hph. Funny how casino and counter measurement agree on a performance measurement - maximize hands per hour.

[AP2win]

When I play hand-held games I prefer one other player at the table to take all the negatives. When I'm in it's with two hands so he gets only 1/3 of the positives. (Yes, I have to play some neutrals in most cases where there is a no mid-deck entry rule.) Second best is playing alone. In shoe games I'm almost always playing with others because I'm not there for the negatives. Regarding speed, the only problem with playing as fast as possible is that it can draw heat. Face it: most ploppies don't play 240-300+ hand/hr like machines. Nothing screams expertise like fast, decisive play. If the pit is paying attention, I'll slow down and "mull" over some decisions. If I've got a dealer who doesn't care what the players do -- and truthfully, most don't -- I'll split 10's when I'm playing alone and the pit is focused elsewhere. No attention grabbing moans from the peanut gallery, an apathetic dealer and I'm all good. It's the only time I'll make that play.

[bigplayer]

Ideal Number of Players

When you have the Edge: Ideal Number = 1
When you don't have the Edge: Ideal Number = As many as possible, preferably with you at another table.

[muffdiver]

Math says that 1 is the ideal number when an edge is present but I still prefer at least one more player at the table for many reasons. The main one is that a lone player ramping bets just seems so terribly exposed.

[metronome]

Perhaps the more important question is how many other players make a table a negative EV proposition.
Example, DD, NMSE, no Wonging, DOA, DAS, S17, pen = 50% to maybe 70%, $10-$3000 limit...
Playable with two other players only...yes?...no?

[bigplayer]

Math says that 1 is the ideal number when an edge is present but I still prefer at least one more player at the table for many reasons. The main one is that a lone player ramping bets just seems so terribly exposed.

You should not feel that way. When you are alone the count moves up and down far more gradually which gives you far less exposure because your bets ramp much more gradually. Other people hurt you vastly more in + counts than they help you in - counts. You don't need as much of a spread to win when heads up than with other players either because you get all of the positive rounds to yourself. You can also use more off the top betting cover when heads up because as a percentage of total rounds there are fewer rounds right after the shuffle. (With a full table maybe 1 round in 4 is off the top, heads up only 1 rounds in 10 is off the top).

[ZenKinG]

Same edge, but a longer long run(N0) with more players. Reason is less hands per hour in a nutshell. OP, the claims you make are all short term claims with no significant evidence, purely empirical. And the reason you might feel a certain way is because of the variance of more hands seen vs less hands seen