Beginner off to vegas - "recreational card counting"

[boatman]

Really cool website!

Forgive my newbie question. But i'm just learning about BlackJack and am off to Vegas in 3 days.

Now that i'I've spent a few hours reading about various counting systems, and spending a few hours with the simulator, its obvious that i'm not going to be Rain Man this time out. But I'd really just like to go and just have a good time -- and preferably at least break even.

So I understand now that to maximize wins with basic strategy I basically have to follow this chart http://wizardofodds.com/games/blackj...gy/calculator/
I also understand that they sell these charts at the gift shop--and do allow people to bring the charts to the black jack table.

So I gather that, if I follow the chart precisely, then at least i'll be near the "break even" range.

So my question is:

A: Do I have the above correct?
B: Is it worth attempting to go one step beyond the cart. I have 2 days to practice. Perhaps doing this: http://casinogambling.about.com/od/b...inus-Count.htm method?

Thanks for your help guys!

[Zach Black]

It's possible to pick up basic strategy and maybe a level 1 count in a couple of days. Make sure you configure the basic strategy chart for the games you will play. (6 deck, dealer hits on soft 17, late surrender , double after split allowed) The gift shops usually sell the wrong basic strategy chart.

But that's just the start of the skill set needed.

You also need to know something about game selection. Scouting for the best combination of penetration, rules and the least amount of crowding is essential. CBJN on BJ21,com has a listing of the casinos with current conditions.

You also need to figure out what your trip bankroll will be and determine your bet ramp versus player advantage so you size your bets appropriately.

If you haven't read a book on counting then read Professional Blackjack by Stanford Wong or Black Belt in Blackjack by Arnold Snyder - both are on Kindle. There's also an excellent free book on this website http://qfit.com/book/index.htm by Norm Wattenburger, the owner of this web site.

Remember even the most skilled counters have very long losing streaks (months). Counting does not guarantee a win in the short term. I's only over the long haul that you have an advantage if you skills are sharp and you a have sufficient bankroll to ride out the variance .

[Coyote]

Good luck Boatman! You'll need it going to Vegas on two days prep!

[seriousplayer]

It's possible to pick up basic strategy and maybe a level 1 count in a couple of days. Make sure you configure the basic strategy chart for the games you will play. (6 deck, dealer hits on soft 17, late surrender , double after split allowed) The gift shops usually sell the wrong basic strategy chart.

But that's just the start of the skill set needed.

You also need to know something about game selection. Scouting for the best combination of penetration, rules and the least amount of crowding is essential. CBJN on BJ21,com has a listing of the casinos with current conditions.

You also need to figure out what your trip bankroll will be and determine your bet ramp versus player advantage so you size your bets appropriately.

If you haven't read a book on counting then read Professional Blackjack by Stanford Wong or Black Belt in Blackjack by Arnold Snyder - both are on Kindle. There's also an excellent free book on this website http://qfit.com/book/index.htm by Norm Wattenburger, the owner of this web site.

Remember even the most skilled counters have very long losing streaks (months). Counting does not guarantee a win in the short term. I's only over the long haul that you have an advantage if you skills are sharp and you a have sufficient bankroll to ride out the variance .

I have nothing against Professional Blackjack by Stanford Wong but I think that he should read something new like Modern Blackjack, Blackjack Blueprint, Blackjack Attack. See Professional Blackjack is published in 1994 which is not recent.

[mofungoo]

Just learn Basic Strategy and the variations for games you will be playing. Flat bet (don't vary your bets). This will have you playing about even with the house. You will not have enough time to learn to count, so keep it simple, look around and have a good time. After experiencing Vegas you will have enough information to decide your next move.

[paymypush]

I'd love to give you advice like take insurance at TC +3, stay on a multi-count 16 vs a 10 or wong out of negative shoes but you are going to have your hands full as it is.

I do want to tell you that there is no need to look for strategy cards at the casinos which may or may not have the ones you need. You can get exactly what you need on line. Type in the rules etc that you want and print them out.

[SiMi]

boatman
FWIW, if I were in this spot, knowing what I know about card counting (first started in 1979), I'd get a good book on card counting and conceal the title and read it as much as possible during your travel and down time without letting anyone see the correct title. Try to understand BS as much as possible since you should always use it, even if you never count cards. I'd consider this a research trip and take copious notes about what you observe during your stay.
I'd concentrate on understanding the favorable RULES for shoe games (too much pressure at SD and DD games) and the PENETRATION at each table. Again, I'd see this as mostly a research trip and I'd focus on learning how to pick out a good game and how things really work when you're looking at BJ as job rather than recreation.
It's not that easy. There are a lot of things to consider. You can't just sit at any table and start playing and expect to have an advantage. As someone else said, the advantage is a 'long haul' thing and you can't expect to see it work in a weekend. If you're not committed to learning to count and play over a very long haul, there's really not much point in even bothering to try it.
Go all around the Casinos and study the tables until you can tell which games are most favorable to play, when to play, how much you must/may bet, and then study the dealers/house procedures to see which of THOSE more-favorable games offers the best penetration. Penetration is as important as rules. Also, notice how the employee food chain is set up at the Casinos.
Then, spend some time trying to Back Count. You'll see just what you're really up against.
In Vegas, most dealers and players are very fast and stuff happens so quickly you will be lost in no time. It takes a lot of practice to be able to do everything needed to successfully count and cover in most Vegas spots. Even consulting a BS card might be too much to expect at many places. At a $10 table, you could be down several hundred bucks in NO TIME AT ALL. Worst of all, you probably wouldn't learn much. You could learn a LOT more about playing at your local Indian Casino in Bumfuque, Nowhere.
If you already know how to play BJ, there's not much point in just sitting there TRYING to count and play BS from a card. Truth is, you'll just be wasting everyone's time. If you just want to play for fun, just flat bet and use the BS card to get the feel for how BS works.
But, frankly, there's NO WAY you'll be ready to count in this amount of time and it could be an expensive experiment. You could use the time profitably, however, if you see it as a research trip for future reference. So, if you're committed to learning to count, get out and check out all the action and take some good notes.
I hope this helps a little! Good luck!!

[DBJT]

Get Fred Rezney's book "Blackjack BlueBook II" IMHO... his very simple counting system (to start off) PLUS the advice on "scavenger plays" and insight like that will probably serve you better going on a quick Vegas trip, with not enough time available to prepare.

But, really, yeah... as others said above already just get the right basic strategy chart(s) for the game(s) you'll play... flat bet an amount you're comfortable with (no shame in table minimums!) and try to STICK to the B.S. chart (no "hunches!") and be prepared to still LOSE money (it happens!). Just try to have some fun and get a feel for the game.

Later, when you get home, if you've been bitten by Lady Blackjack's bug... THEN you can begin the REAL journey of learning to beat this crazy "simple" card game.

Which is a journey of months... years... decades...

-DBJT

[Gronbog]

Regarding scouting for decent rules, beware of tables where blackjack pays 6:5. These are very common in Vegas, especially at the single deck tables.

Other than that, I would like to echo the advice to take the time to experience all that is Vegas, observe how things work, play for fun (using BS) and treat this as a learning experience.

Good luck!

[biggg]

I echo the thoughts to just play BS. I would also tell you to play rated everywhere you might as well get some comps/cover for your time.

[DBJT]

Oh... and don't play any of the "side bets" like Lucky-Ladies or Perfect-Pairs, etc.

Those are sucker bets, with a much higher house edge than the core blackjack game.

And a big-time DITTO on "just say NO to 6 to 5" -- be sure to play only REAL blackjack that pays 3 to 2!!!

-DBJT

[bigplayer]

Learn Basic Strategy and use a modest spread (like 1-3 or 1-4) and change tables or take your bathroom breaks when the count goes negative and you'll be doing far better than almost everyone else in Vegas. Keep in mind, for a single trip the primary determinant of your success or failure is still luck but instead of being an underdog you might be a 55-45 favorite to win.

[Darth Vader]

I too am a noob. The ipad BJ drill app that is offered here is amazing and for $14 it is an amazing bargain. I learned the felt tables in a couple days. Still working on the count drills. My accuracy is good but i have to get my speed up. Buy the app.