Not much experience backcounting. From practice sessions I'm guessing no more than 3 or 4 hands before moving on.
By 3-4 hands do you mean on a table full of players? Or just watching one player heads-up versus the dealer? Big difference in number of cards seen, eh? LOL
Generally, if things don't appear to be heading favorable upwards after about a deck and a half, maybe 2 decks out of a 6-deck shoe, you can probably move on. That's just me however, and others may be more patient looking for that occasional rapid rise that CAN happen sometimes anyway.
Also it helps make it more interesting and efficient if you can develop the ability to track two tables side by side. Double your scouting productivity
-DBJT
I'm sure there are diverse answers. 1 or 2 players is what I had in mind. It seems that when the RC plunges to -6 or so right off the bat then chances are that shoe will have a larger number of rounds at a disadvantage.
Was thinking along the lines of trying to eliminate some play at TC 0 or less, not necessarily trying to wait for a high TC, high neutral would be acceptable.
It's hard to give steadfast rules because that's really not what I go by, but I'll share a little bit on what I do.
First, I plan so I will have two tables to count most of the time. I generally won't sit during the first half of the shoe unless it's at least +3 or better hi lo. If I'm only two decks through and it's even, I'll definitely stick around. If the count hits -10 running in the first deck or two, I'm out unless the table next to it is worth hanging around for.
If I'm backcounting, I'm usually playing at or higher than +3 hi lo on average with a 1-3ish spread at most. If the count just dropped from 1% edge to breakeven, and I figure there is 2 rounds left, I'll just exit rather than spread down or take the variance to scope out the last round.
Other things to consider while choosing tables: how many people at each table, how good is the cut, how much action on the table. Also, have chips.
Blackjack Attack edition 3 has the definitive work on this.It is in Chapter 13: New Answers to old questions. The answer to your question depends on several factors that determine your optimal move on point. They are the TC the current level of penetration, the cut card placement With no delay to start counting another table and whether or not you can start counting a new shoe immediately. If you don't own a copy you should have one. This book is on everyone's short list of must own BJ books. You want the soft cover 3rd edition of Blackjack Attack by Don Schlesinger. You will make so much more money after using the information in any chapter of the book.
With no delay before counting another shoe you are not patient if the game is not deeply dealt, abandon backcounting at TC -0.25 is about right. dealt. For a more deeply dealt 6 deck shoe your patience grows as you get deeper into the shoe. At 2 decks in TC -0.5 and at 4 decks in TC -0.8. but during the last deck in the shoe the optimal leave TC increases into positive TC territory.
If there is a delay before starting backcounting a fresh shoe more patience is required. With poor pen (4.5/6) the optimal leave point reaches TC -1 by a half deck into the shoe. For more deeply dealt games (5/6) the optimal leave point reaches -1.5 after 2 decks dealt.You are not going to leave a positive count very often in these situations near the end of the shoe.
Tthree, as usual, a thorough and detailed reply versus my anecdotal "in my opinion" off-the-cuff posted half-answer... LOL
However his last paragraph roughly agrees with what I wrote, I think. Main point being on a shoe with PEN only about a deck.
Sure you'd leave the backcounting attempt different on worse penetration but the main point should be: why are you even trying to get into a game with crappy pen to begin with? If you're starting out by picking a table to watch with the dealer cutting decent enough... that's the first hurdle. Then only if you're on that game, deciding when to jump in, is the second...
PEN is way important! Don't play crappy games!
-DBJT
To keep it simple: what I usually do is I entered at TC= 1.25-2.0 in any point of the shoe and sometime TC = 1 depending on the house edge of the game. I backcount until more than two decks is dealt if in that point the shoe does not reach the true count I mention(1, 1.5, or 2.0) then I move on to other tables.Originally Posted by ohbehave
Last edited by seriousplayer; 11-15-2013 at 02:35 PM.
Only one deck gone and even -1 TC (hi-lo) still seems like throwing in the towel a bit early, to me.
Unless you really have a shítload TON of games available for you to scout around on (maybe Vegas?) I'd still stick it out a little longer, personally. The cards do come back around to ya once in a while
-DBJT
This question directed to who? Me, as my post is the last-most-recent one in the thread?
If to me, sure I've read it... several times cover to cover! But what do you see I'm getting wrong here?
-DBJT <--- disappointed to have perhaps let down the master
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