Simplifying troubles.

[Pacman]

Well ive decided to simplify my counting system. I plan to drop my Hiopt2 with the side FOR NOW, and go with hi lo since i play mostly 6D. Im struggling. The count is so easy. Its sickening. Im struggling to commit to it. I feel so...average now. No offense. A more complicated count suits me. I like the exhaustive feeling. The strain. The hardwork. But after sim after sim, i find the extra work to be...unnecessary except just for the thrill of a harder count. The main reason im downsizing is to be able to focus on (and learn) more AP skills with a higher advantage (no details)
I know its better, but maaan. Someone, convince me please!
Is it truly unecessary?? (Hiopt2) feel like i wasted time...

~Pac

[RS]

Count two tables at once.

[Pacman]

Well said. Trying to track 2 tables for an extended period was very difficult. Thou it could be accomplished for a moment.

~Pac

[Mr. White]

Your practice and experience with such an advanced count has made you a better counter. HiLo will be easily learned and mastered by you because of that experience, as you clear up your brains processing power to exercise your new techniques at the table. To me, it seems like good practice more than a waste of time. Good luck with your learning!

[DM21]

Have you thought about using ZEN? It isn't much more difficult than Hi-Lo and you don't have to keep a side count, maybe that won't be as monotinous. It works well for shoes and DD games.

DM

[Rudy]

Wasted time with HiOptII? not at all my friend, for some reasons many people call it "The Top of the Counts" (of course after tarzan's count). Of course Sims are very very helpful for us, but real-life-game is very different. The effectiveness of HiOptII is great. (I want to clarify that I am not trying to convince anyone or telling that HiOptII is "the best count in the world!) Perhaps you are talking about to focus in hole carding, shuffle tracking, or other techniques, any extra info for the game is good, and you can do all these easily with HiLo, but IMHO HiOptII was not a waste of time. Good luck with that Pac and keep us informed.

[Pacman]

Thanks fo the support guys.
It's wierd this feeling i have. But it honestly hurts to use a less effecient system. But I'm making steady progress. Learning the count was instantaneous. Easily can count down in less than 20 sec (not to relevant though). Next up is indexes. Do you think a fully stocked shelf of indexes is necessary? I plan to have a play all approach and just randomly bail from the worst of the worst (and just sit out of some negative hands here and there).

~Pac

[freehope]

With my experience, the difficult thing is to estimate the deck and calculate the true count correctly

[seriousplayer]

Well ive decided to simplify my counting system. I plan to drop my Hiopt2 with the side FOR NOW, and go with hi lo since i play mostly 6D. Im struggling. The count is so easy. Its sickening. Im struggling to commit to it. I feel so...average now. No offense. A more complicated count suits me. I like the exhaustive feeling. The strain. The hardwork. But after sim after sim, i find the extra work to be...unnecessary except just for the thrill of a harder count. The main reason im downsizing is to be able to focus on (and learn) more AP skills with a higher advantage (no details)
I know its better, but maaan. Someone, convince me please!
Is it truly unecessary?? (Hiopt2) feel like i wasted time...

~Pac

If you are only playing six deck with RSA and late surrendering than it is fine to use Hi-lo but not if you think about playing single deck and double deck because Hi-lo has the lowest PE. There is no doubt that level 2 count is always better than level one count even used in running count mode with an unbalanced count like UBZII. Do keep in mind that level two count system does have higher advantage than level one counts.

[Pacman]

I do plan to play some DD (no single) but only for other advantages outside of straight counting. Id only be playing a slightly better then breakeven game (count wise).

DM - i did look into zen as well. Ive heard great things. The problem is im training a friend of mine who is very new to the game. They're currently learning basic strategy. They claim to not do well with math so i wanna keep it as simple as possible. I may be recruiting/training others as well for the squad and wud prefer not to over complicate things seeing as theres alot to learn beyond Card counting.

-Pac

[seriousplayer]

I do plan to play some DD (no single) but only for other advantages outside of straight counting. Id only be playing a slightly better then breakeven game (count wise).

DM - i did look into zen as well. Ive heard great things. The problem is im training a friend of mine who is very new to the game. They're currently learning basic strategy. They claim to not do well with math so i wanna keep it as simple as possible. I may be recruiting/training others as well for the squad and wud prefer not to over complicate things seeing as theres alot to learn beyond Card counting.

-Pac

Just be aware that you will be leaving money on the table with a PE=.51 for Hi-lo. Of course unless you side count Ace than the PE will be better.

[mofungoo]

Regarding 2D play:

Just be aware that you will be leaving money on the table with a PE=.51 for Hi-lo. Of course unless you side count Ace than the PE will be better.

You will not be leaving any money on the table playing 2D games using Hilo. In fact, you will make slightly more money with Hilo compared to HiOpt1 on those games. In the original SCORE article in Blackjack Forum Magazine summer 1999 issue, page 30 and 31 we have:

62/104 S17 DAS 1-6 spread SCORE=44.89 Hilo, 44.78 Hiopt1
62/104 H17 DAS 1-6 spread SCORE=30.36 Hilo, 29.98 Hiopt1

Those differences are insignificant in practical terms, but using a level 1 non ace reckoned count will make no more money than Hilo in those games but more mental effort will be expended. To get a worthwhile theoretical gain a level 2 count must be employed.

[Three]

62/104 S17 DAS 1-6 spread SCORE=44.89 Hilo, 44.78 Hiopt1
62/104 H17 DAS 1-6 spread SCORE=30.36 Hilo, 29.98 Hiopt1

The question is was this sim done using ace playing adjustments or just betting adjustments. It takes a bit more work to set up the ace adjusted playing decision sim on most simulators. Few run the sim for how the game will be played by a skillz player. They run it for the lazy player. The dedicated skillz player would be side counting other neutral cards for playing adjustments in pitch games. If you use the balanced side count approach for aces it is impossible for HILO to have a higher score the HILOPT I.