five-card automatic win

**jacquesblack** · 11-02-2013, 04:42 PM

According to blackjack literature the player edge for a five-card automatic win is 1.46%, but does anyone know what the player edge would be if the five-card automatic win was paid off at 2-1? Also what would be the best way to exploit such a player-friendly rule?

Flat betting would realise a decent profit, of course, but surely it would make sense to raise bets in highly-negative counts as well as positive counts. The other rules in this six-deck game give a house edge of about 0.55%. Penetration varies between about 4.7 and 5.0.

**Shark** · 11-03-2013, 04:58 AM

If 5 card unbusted hand pays 2 to 1 , than the rule would add 2.92% to your expectation. With a game that off the top has 0.55 % house edge without this rule , you have +2.37% edge with this rule when using correct basic strategy to take advantage of this rule.

When you play a game with such favorable rules , you flat bet your regular max bet all the time because the last thing you want is to be barred for varying your bets with the count.

If you need the correct basic strategy to play this game PM me with exact rules.

**Nyne** · 11-03-2013, 05:37 AM

Shark, I don't think you can simply double the 1.46% to determine the advantage this rule provides. The 1.46% number results from turning some hands from losers to winners, some from pushes to winners, and some hands would have won without the rule for no change. I would guess that the 2:1 win adds less than the automatic winner rule added to begin with, but I don't know for sure. Also the strategy will be different from the usual 5 card automatic winner because the 2:1 payoff will make us want to try even harder for the 5 card hand.

**Shark** · 11-03-2013, 06:33 AM

Originally Posted by Nyne

Also the strategy will be different from the usual 5 card automatic winner because the 2:1 payoff will make us want to try even harder for the 5 card hand

Of course, you need to use the basic strategy for 5 card automatic winner pays 2 to 1.

RS · 11-03-2013, 10:26 AM

Originally Posted by Shark

Of course, you need to use the basic strategy for 5 card automatic winner pays 2 to 1.

That wasn't his point though...

**moo321** · 11-04-2013, 10:45 AM

Is this an actual game? Also, are you sure it's not 5 card 21 pays 2 to 1?

**Three** · 11-04-2013, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by moo321

Is this an actual game? Also, are you sure it's not 5 card 21 pays 2 to 1?

That's what I was thinking.

**BlackJackAgain** · 11-05-2013, 01:10 AM

If the info is second hand, maybe.
If the OP himself saw the game, it does not look like he made a mistake - he is clear in referring to a standard five card charlie.

I simmed this out of interest (rough sim) - and interestingly enough, the EV decreases smoothly from high to low counts (ie the BJ disadvantage is stronger than the 5CC advantage at low counts) - although you only reach 0% at about TC-9 - and since it's not a single deck game...

D.

Originally Posted by Tthree

That's what I was thinking.

**Shark** · 11-05-2013, 05:06 AM

Your approach is sub-optimal. HiLo is not well suited for taking advantage of the bonus rule because high cards are not favorable for acquiring 5 card hands.

5 card Charlie BS is not agressive enough for taking full advantage of 2 to1 payout for 5 card hands. The added payout require hiting more as well as avoiding doubles and splitting of small pairs.

This is much as I am willing to say on an open forum.