Playing DD, green Chip, at 2DD h17. No surrender all other options available, can one win with a 1-4 or 1-5 spread, playing all?
start, say 2 units ($50), go down to 1 unit for all plus one and lower, play 2 at plus 2, 3 at plus 3 and 4 at plus 4 and higher?
penn is about 60-65 cards.
Yes, it is a winning game, around $20 an hour. I assume you are using Hi-Lo. There are ways to get a 1-4 spread to an hourly rate of around $100; only play deeply dealt games, play 2 hands off the top and drop one in a negative count, play heads up or with one more player at most, and wong out in deeply negative counts (phone call, bathroom break, etc.). If you want to specialize in playing DD with small spread it would be wise to learn a higher PE count, Zen works pretty well and isn't that hard to pick up. If you want to stick with Hi-Lo, assuming that is your count, learn all of the indices through -10 - +10.
The good thing about a smaller, more polite spread is that you can play much longer than just hit an run sessions. If you find a deeply cut game that you want to play for a while, I would recommend some light betting cover, especially on insurance. With a small spread insurance is the biggest indicator that you are counting, occasionally take even money and insurance on a min. bet.
DM
Don't judge a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes, by then you are a mile away and have his shoes.
Originally Posted by DM21
yes, Hi-Lo. I am graduating to trying out $25 at 2 deck from $10 at 6 deck. I realize the 6 deck allows for bigger spreads and is probably more profitable but more crowds, side bets and slower dealing sometimes gets me irritated. The total BR is about $15k. I am making my first initial steps into the HL area, there are fewer folks and more scrutiny in the HL area but the game seems to move fast and the one or two others may be betting higher amounts than me.
If you seek out the uncrowded DD games, at most 1 maybe 2 for a short while, other players, to take advantage of the higher hands per hour and the more hands at deeper penetration, then I think you will only be able to sit out negative hands once or twice before getting lots of pit attention, especially in a $25 HL room. So while this may work in a venue where you can easily move from store to store, I don't think it's a good approach at a place you want to camp out, or a place you go to frequently. You might be able to get away with it at a full table, but then your hands per hour will be crap and you will get a lot fewer hands at high counts.
Tried for 1.5 hours, dropped $500. In the 3-4 max bet situations, I lost the $125 max bet. Kept getting 18 or less while dealer got 20's. On three max bet hands where she had 5 or 6 she got 21, 20 and 17 (she had 6, drew an Ace and a 10 when I had a hard 14).
Should i I trust the math and try again or go back yo 6 deck, $10 min where I was more comfortable? Feel like I need to get comfortable playing $25 minimum and DD since I have an upcoming visit to Las Vegas.
DD is quite a bit different than 6D. You need to be a bit more accurate with your deck estimation. After a little bit of practice (or play), you'll figure it out.
In 6D, if you're spreading something like say, 1-8 or 1-10 and you have a loss, it's mostly dependent on that max bet...but if you're only spreading 1-4 on DD and have a loss, it's not entirely dependent on that max bet, since the max bet is only 4x your min bet.
So you lost $500 (4 max bets)? Not seeing the problem here -- trust the math and keep at it. If you're not comfortable spreading or aren't able to play proficiently (deck estimation is probably #1 in my head here), then yeah, fix the problems first before you return....or go back to $10 6D's...what're you're comfortable at and do well -- do that.
It's all about "getting money on the table". So, however you can get as much money on the table as possible -- do that, whether it be DD [take a few days to learn the divisors and whatnot for deck estimation then go camping] or playing 6D where you're comfortable and don't have to (re)learn anything.
"Everyone wants to be rich, but nobody wants to work for it." -Ryan Howard [The Office]
You sound like one of those people who repeatedly "lose" doubling down on 10's and 11's and whine every time...then, when you win on one, you think the universe finally aligned for you the way it rightfully shouldALWAYS trust the math. It doesn't change unless you are doing something wrong. The only way you should go back to 6 deck is because your roll changed, conditions changed, etc. If you are rolled for the game, and it has better conditions, aren't getting backed off, etc, keep going. In my opinion, poker is the same way. Trust the math, keep your head down and going forward, and churn out the money. You'll develop the confidence at the game...just watch out for your roll and staying within your boundaries. Really, $500 is only 20 units, I don't know the deviations and such off hand, but that's like $200 loss at $10 6d, and you probably wouldn't even bat an eye at this loss there...even it doesn't phase me a ton at 6d and I have half the roll (playing as replenishable). Good luck!
I am surprised that you consider deck estimation in DD. One would think it is much easier, since you are dividing by less than 2. After the first round, RC is plus 2, TC is between +1and+1.5 (round to +1), if RC is 3, round up to TC2, etc.
in Hi-Lo, do you use half decks?
Sounds like you ran into some normal variance, but I would ask yourself if you picked a good game. What was the penetration, and how many other players? Did you really sit out all the negative hands? Did you get enough high count hands to balance out the low/negative counts, or did good opportunities get shuffled away because of the high number of players and the cards used per round? The fewer the opportunities, the more you have to take advantage of them with a larger spread, higher max bet. Unless you are regularly sitting out negative hands, I would think you would need at least a 1-6 spread to make play all worth it, and if you simulate it, you will see your variance per 100 hands is going to be up there.
I would guess the cut off was after about 60 cards. There were 5 spots but 3 players playing a hand each. I am inclined to think its variance since I did get 3-4 max bet opportunities with TC 3+ or Tc4+ That I lost, one I won. I am going to try tomorrow again. Only 1 table in HL for $25 DD, one with 6 deck $25 and one with $100 min. With DD. I think surveillance monitored as the Pit did not seem to be paying attention.
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