Playing unrated

**BugsySeagull** · 09-25-2013, 01:23 PM

I play rated at my local stores, and the few times I've been to Vegas I've sometimes played rated and sometimes not. But there's a casino a few hours away from me that I've been to only twice before, and have not played rated either time. The reason for this is I read up on this particular casino (on Native American land) on here, and some have said it's sweaty, particularly the 2D game that I have played there.

I played there 2 times earlier this year, playing the 2D game, and both times I sat down they asked me for my card, and then asked if I wanted a card. I said no, that there's not much of a point since I'm not local and won't be coming that often. Yeah, I'm aware that the 2D table might be a counter trap! Both times my sessions were short, I spread no more than 1-4, and I left 4 or 5 units positive.

Should I be worried about trouble at this place, being that it's on Native American land? A casino on US land needs to follow US and state laws, but this casino does not need to, I don't want to get back roomed! Should I just play rated to keep them from getting suspicious about why I'm NOT playing rated? I'm going to be traveling near there this weekend for business and I'm thinking of stopping in to play for a while, but I don't want to do anything stupid.

**Three** · 09-25-2013, 03:31 PM

Play rated most local places. If the bounce back and comps suck don't play rated. If they ask tell them why and they say, I can't blame you or I understand. They know their return in bounce back and comps is not competitive. They have been told that by numerous denials.

**Ouchez** · 09-25-2013, 05:00 PM

If you don't play rated chances are you cannot play your "A" game, (for various reasons), if you play rated they will relax for awhile, then when you are found out you will be plastered in the Data Base.

If you STing you can last far longer, if you use your brain. If you HC, and are caught, you will get caught at some point, you may be in very big trouble,,,that is the state of AP play these days. (anything goes on the Res.).

If you live in Vgas and play like KJ you will last far longer, but at some point when you get nailed good enough, (like getting caught with a high kick and a right cross from Badr Hari), you will fall fast.

Ouchez

**bigplayer** · 09-25-2013, 06:03 PM

Depends on the game and casino. Generally if you play unrated at a closely watched game like double deck you will last much less time. If you six deck and buy-in small to start you won't raise any issues up front, you don't buy-in for real money until you're out of chips and hopefully (at the same time) the count has risen. The exception is on the east coast where house rules often restrict unrated players to 10x the table min on one spot.

If you're a new player spreading something like $10 to 2x$100 or $25 to 2x$150 I'd avoid playing rated. Regardless, I'd NEVER play rated under my real name. If you have to play rated get friends or similar aged relatives to sign up for players cards.

**Ouchez** · 09-25-2013, 07:14 PM

I would never, in todays environment, play with or use another identity or use a fake id. Being an AP should never mean having to stoop to using, what some may consider, criminal activitys, and you never know where the Polize will take it if you are caught doing so.

Ouchez

KJ · 09-25-2013, 10:28 PM

Originally Posted by Ouchez

If you live in Vgas and play like KJ you will last far longer, but at some point when you get nailed good enough, you will fall fast.

Ouchez

Geez Ouchez, almost seems like you are waiting for that day. I hope to prove you wrong.

Obviously entering the game is one of the critical points. There are things you can do to be 'less noticeable' and improve longevity and reduce the chance of being asked for a card. One is entering with chips instead of cash. This eliminates the need for the dealer to call the pit. And I don't mean you enter with a double handful of chips that you plop down on the felt and will get you noticed. That's what pockets are for.

A chip inventory is especially useful if it is a local place that you play often. It's a little more trouble, when you play dozens of 'local' casinos, but is still worth the effort.

Second thing is something that bigplayer mentioned. Whether entering with chips or cash buy-in, I like to enter with a very small amounts. 4 minimum wagers. $100 @ a $25 table. That would translate to $20 @ a $5 table or $40 @ $10 table which is very easy, 1 or 2, $20 bills. (Don't peel your bills off a 2 inch thick roll of bills

) Small buy-ins, or small amounts of starting chips, just screams "I don't have much money, am not staying long and am absolutely no threat", and first impressions are huge. Even if they do notice you, most pit folks won't waste their time asking for a card. You are likely to be gone by the time they get back with it. Most people don't like to create extra, unnecessary work for themselves like that.

Small buy-ins has other benefits as well. Most times, you only have a small amount of chips in front of you. That makes for easy and quick get-a-ways. Also reduces the risk of you being a target, crime-wise. Really the only time you have a big pile of chips is after a good run (oh darn...I hate when that happens

). But even then, that is a good time to exit at the next shuffle, so if the pit does become interested at this point and ask for a card, a "I am leaving at the shuffle" usually does the trick.

**bigplayer** · 09-25-2013, 11:57 PM

Originally Posted by Ouchez

I would never, in todays environment, play with or use another identity or use a fake id. Being an AP should never mean having to stoop to using, what some may consider, criminal activitys, and you never know where the Polize will take it if you are caught doing so.

Ouchez

Depends on the jurisdiction and your particular situation. Needless to say nobody should ever play with a fake ID on your person or anywhere in the casino and you should not use such products to commit fraud. That said, using a product to get a players card and simply using that card to be rated and for no other purposes is not illegal. If you're questioned about it admit nothing and lacking hard evidence it will amount to nothing. It is not a crime to play blackjack under an alias, particularly if you are careful not to push the envelope in terms of triggering government paperwork. (i.e., NEVER CTR or take a W2-G under an alias)

**BugsySeagull** · 09-26-2013, 04:14 AM

Originally Posted by Ouchez

If you don't play rated chances are you cannot play your "A" game, (for various reasons), if you play rated they will relax for awhile, then when you are found out you will be plastered in the Data Base.

If you STing you can last far longer, if you use your brain. If you HC, and are caught, you will get caught at some point, you may be in very big trouble,,,that is the state of AP play these days. (anything goes on the Res.).

If you live in Vgas and play like KJ you will last far longer, but at some point when you get nailed good enough, (like getting caught with a high kick and a right cross from Badr Hari), you will fall fast.

Ouchez

What do you mean by "STing"? and if by "HC" you mean Hole-carding, I'm not that advanced yet so I won't be doing that.

**BugsySeagull** · 09-26-2013, 04:16 AM

Originally Posted by bigplayer

If you're a new player spreading something like $10 to 2x$100 or $25 to 2x$150 I'd avoid playing rated. Regardless, I'd NEVER play rated under my real name. If you have to play rated get friends or similar aged relatives to sign up for players cards.

I'll probably be going $25-$125 at the very most, if that. It's a $25 table. Should I be safe if I'm rated?

**BugsySeagull** · 09-26-2013, 04:19 AM

Originally Posted by KJ

Second thing is something that bigplayer mentioned. Whether entering with chips or cash buy-in, I like to enter with a very small amounts. 4 minimum wagers. $100 @ a $25 table. That would translate to $20 @ a $5 table or $40 @ $10 table which is very easy, 1 or 2, $20 bills. (Don't peel your bills off a 2 inch thick roll of bills

) Small buy-ins, or small amounts of starting chips, just screams "I don't have much money, am not staying long and am absolutely no threat", and first impressions are huge. Even if they do notice you, most pit folks won't waste their time asking for a card. You are likely to be gone by the time they get back with it. Most people don't like to create extra, unnecessary work for themselves like that.

This is a neat idea, but won't I have to constantly reach in my pocket for more cash? And won't that attract attention?

**Ouchez** · 09-26-2013, 04:46 AM

[QUOTE=KJ;112563][SIZE=3]Geez Ouchez, almost seems like you are waiting for that day. I hope to prove you wrong.

KJ, of course not, you know better. I hope you play forever, I just know how quickly things can come apart, and the capabilities on the part of the Casinos to make it happen, with the tech available today, and getting better all the time.

Best,
Ouchez

**Ouchez** · 09-26-2013, 04:52 AM

Originally Posted by BugsySeagull

This is a neat idea, but won't I have to constantly reach in my pocket for more cash? And won't that attract attention?

I don't play VGAS, so things are not as flexible,,, I have already been stopped and threatened by Managment Of Table Games to cash in the chips I was carrying, for the purpose, my purpose, of using them as KJ has mentioned,,,ya,,,I was very shocked,,,,so much for that move,,,but that was not Vgas.

Ouchez

**Rainmaker** · 09-26-2013, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by Ouchez

I would never, in todays environment, play with or use another identity or use a fake id. Being an AP should never mean having to stoop to using, what some may consider, criminal activitys, and you never know where the Polize will take it if you are caught doing so.Ouchez

I'm curious to know what law you are breaking by presenting a fake ID. Identity theft? No, the person gave you their ID of their own accord. Fraud to obtain alcohol? No, you are over 21. Possession of a fictitious identification? No, your player's card is not an official government document. What many people consider to be criminal activities, are actually completely lawful...this is a borderline political post.