Any way to beat CSMs?

[dsticks]

This is my first post!
I am not new to BJ and much prefer a shoe game, but CSMs are widely used in many casinos in Australia and we usually only have one or two casinos in each state so choices can be quite limited.
Is there any way to beat tables with CSMs? My reviewing of this topic tells me it hasn't been done but the best method that gets closest is using pure Basic Strategy.
My approach has been to use an positive progression, and trying to bet into a winning run (minimum of 3 in sequence) - eg return to lowest bet after any loss, and bet 1,2,3 units on wins.
But the losses mount too high or I simply don't stay long enough.
I started off using a 6 unit buy-in but have found recently a 10 unit buy-in to perform marginally better.
Any comments or advice welcome.

[The Dude]

This is my first post! I am not new to BJ and much prefer a shoe game, but CSMs are widely used in many casinos in Australia and we usually only have one or two casinos in each state so choices can be quite limited.Is there any way to beat tables with CSMs? My reviewing of this topic tells me it hasn't been done but the best method that gets closest is using pure Basic Strategy.My approach has been to use an positive progression, and trying to bet into a winning run (minimum of 3 in sequence) - eg return to lowest bet after any loss, and bet 1,2,3 units on wins. But the losses mount too high or I simply don't stay long enough.I started off using a 6 unit buy-in but have found recently a 10 unit buy-in to perform marginally better.Any comments or advice welcome.

In short, no. CSMs are sometimes beaten with a randomized algorithm. But like computers, they just come out with a new model. If a model is actually beaten, ur never gonna hear about it until it's already obsolete. Progressions do not work. In a shoe, ur slightly better off increasing your bet after a loss, and lowering it after a win or push--doing so wouldn't be a progression, it would be situational counting. Your positive progression does the opposite, so it's slightly increasing the house edge. Let's not discuss your progression. Just use basic strategy at a CSM.

[dsticks]

In short, no. CSMs are sometimes beaten with a randomized algorithm. But like computers, they just come out with a new model. If a model is actually beaten, ur never gonna hear about it until it's already obsolete. Progressions do not work. In a shoe, ur slightly better off increasing your bet after a loss, and lowering it after a win or push--doing so wouldn't be a progression, it would be situational counting. Your positive progression does the opposite, so it's slightly increasing the house edge. Let's not discuss your progression. Just use basic strategy at a CSM.

Hey Dude, Your response was the one that made the most sense to me and I thank you for it.
Tonight I tried out your suggestion - played a CSM on a $30 table - bought in for $300, started with $50 bets - up by $25 each loss and down by $10 each win. most consecutive wins was 3 and most consecutive losses was 2. Result I won $200.
Hence I am encouraged to continue this experiment further.
Regards Dsticks

[UK-21]

http://www.blackjacktheforum.com/sho...-top-advantage

Did you read this thread?

[dsticks]

http://www.blackjacktheforum.com/sho...-top-advantage

Did you read this thread?

Hey UK-21, I did read this thread. What it told me is that you can't count against a CSM game - or at least it is useless to. Which is ok for me as I am not a counter anyway.

The advice is generally to find a shoe game.

My problem is that in Australia at many casinos (and we only have about 14 in the whole country) the CSMs are used exclusively, so if you are visiting an interstate casino this might be the only option you have. In the high roller or VIP areas the games are shoe games, whether dealer shuffled or machine shuffled (usually by a Shufflemaster) so often we are stuck with having to play a CSM table.

As I responded to The Dude above, I have used his advice of playing pure Basic Strategy (as per blackjackinfo.com), and using a gentle increasing my bet on a loss and reducing my bet on a win.

I have now done this a second time - the first result is given above. On a $30 table I bought in for $500, my starting bet was $50 and I increased by $10 on a loss and reduced by $10 on a win. My highest bet was $80 (ie my longest losing streak was 3 in a row, and my longest winning streak was 5 or 6 - the latter was hard to remember as once I got to table minimum I couldn't reduce any further. Once I had a loss on a winning streak I returned to a $50 bet to start the series again. Similarly once I had a win on a losing streak I started again at $50.

Result? I played for about an hour on that table and won $600.

So that is twice played and two wins. I know - this is a very low sample of playing this type of table but it is encouraging nonetheless.

Thank you for the link, and thanks again to The Dude for advice given earlier.

[MidniteToker]

Any comments or advice welcome.

Stop playing. If the solution you settle on after analysing a game and concluding you can't get an advantage by counting is to use a betting progression, you shouldn't be playing, advantage playing isn't for you.

[21forme]

How to beat a CSM:
Spill a drink into it so they have to hand shuffle.

[Three]

How to beat a CSM:
Spill a drink into it so they have to hand shuffle.

You beat me to it.

[biggg]

With most models the last 20-25 cards seen are not part of the dealing shoe. You could use this to your advantage. With good rules you could get a decent edge but prob boring and not worth it.

[bigplayer]

Straight up play, probably not unless it's a 2/1 BJ promo. People do beat casinos out of money playing CSM's but usually it involves great rules so that the player has no disadvantage (or a slight edge) and good rebate offers or coupons.

[moo321]

There's a lot of ways to beat a CSM. Card-counting is not one of them.

[James989]

There's a lot of ways to beat a CSM. Card-counting is not one of them.

Loss rebate ? Hole carding ?

[Rainmaker]

Loss rebate ? Hole carding ?

I don't think those are ways of beating the CSM. Those are promos or ways of beating a particular dealer.