1 or 2 spots?

**Sage** · 09-18-2013, 03:13 PM

Small Indian casino, play 6D h17, red to green, spread 1 to 8, [wong out between -1 & -2]
planning to double my bet. [BR can handle it]
Should I just double the unit $$ with the same spread or
play 2 spots with the current unit value all the time?
I see a lot of non AP players always playing 2 spots.

**21forme** · 09-18-2013, 03:23 PM

I would just increase my spread on one spot without raising the low end. 1 to 8 on an H17 shoe game is weak.

**Rainmaker** · 09-19-2013, 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by Sage

Small Indian casino, play 6D h17, red to green, spread 1 to 8, [wong out between -1 & -2]planning to double my bet. [BR can handle it]Should I just double the unit $$ with the same spread orplay 2 spots with the current unit value all the time? I see a lot of non AP players always playing 2 spots.

Spread to two, and your ROR goes down. You prob have a small BR, and so you're playing with a fairly large ROR. That's what I'd do. If you're wonging out at -1 at $5 tables in a small casino, I imagine you're gonna be forced to give up that second spot frequently--forcing you to play one spot with double the unit quite often. So play the two w/reduced ROR when you can, my two cents. Yeah and whatever you decide, don't raise your minimum bet.

RS · 09-20-2013, 01:53 AM

Originally Posted by Rainmaker

You prob have a small BR, and so you're playing with a fairly large ROR.

He just said his BR can handle it [raising his max bet].

I'd increase my max bet, but keep minimum bet the same.

**Rainmaker** · 09-20-2013, 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by RollingStoned

He just said his BR can handle it [raising his max bet].I'd increase my max bet, but keep minimum bet the same.

Yeah, but wouldn't you say that is a pretty nebulous statement? If he is asking this type of question, I would classify him as green and assume ROR is an issue worth careful consideration. I don't disagree with your advice, but I'd just add it to my own.

**Sage** · 09-20-2013, 02:18 PM

Have reading BJ Attack. With a 1-8 spread, Don suggests spreading to 2 spots when the max bet is called for. As my cover, to look more like a gambler, I have only been increased my bet after a win.

However, recently had a "Gambler" who bets up by gut feel, tell me not to change the flow of the cards when you are winning.
"Do not add a hand to the table when you just won a hand as you hurt the entire table."

That cards flow stuff is bunk but lots of players seem to believer it.

So,when the TC calls for a max bet, when do you spread to 2 spots, after a win or after a loss?

**Three** · 09-20-2013, 03:41 PM

Just play 2 all the time. Trust me you will like it. You can wong out or drop to one when it gets really bad.

**Pacman** · 09-20-2013, 04:26 PM

Originally Posted by Tthree

Just play 2 all the time. Trust me you will like it. You can wong out or drop to one when it gets really bad.

2 hands in positive counts. Drop to one in negatives then wong out when your departure TC is met.
also, spreading to two hands doesnt always decrease ROR. A single hand of 80 has less risk then two hands of 80. But two hands of ~65 have the same EV as 1 hand of 80 with less risk. I believe two hands increases variance though.. Which could be good or bad depending on which side you fall into that session :P

~Pac

**Meistro123** · 09-21-2013, 01:25 AM

Play two all the time. Any time there is more than one additional spot at the table aside from yourself, playing two is a virtual necessity. Sometimes in small casinos wonging is not optimal. Make sure to play at times when you can get heads up games or at least when fewer players are playing. As far as how much to bet, I would fool around with CVCX online on this website, or better yet purchase this program and play around with the numbers customizing an optimal spread to your own personal risk tolerance.

**Meistro123** · 09-21-2013, 01:26 AM

Two hands of 65 have more ev than one hand of 80. Action multiplied by edge will get you your EV. Two hands of 65 will eat up more cards than one hand of 80 though. There is also some covariance since the wagers are not independent.

**Rainmaker** · 09-21-2013, 05:48 AM

Originally Posted by Tthree

Just play 2 all the time. Trust me you will like it. You can wong out or drop to one when it gets really bad.

He can't do that if he's wonging out at -1 in a small joint. He won't be playing 1/3 of the time. The seat will get taken, and they won't let him hold it while he backcounts or ridiculously feigns stomach issues. I mean I guess he could, if his sessions are very short...but I'm guessing he's going to be there a few hours. He's not talking Vegas casino hopping for 45-minute sessions each, I'm assuming. I have seen charts that show always playing 2 is better than only playing two when the count is good, presumably because you will not always be able to spread to two...but that is ideal, probably not at all practical here.

**Three** · 09-21-2013, 08:19 AM

There are no casino clusters around here and it is commonly done. They will hold your spots for 20 minutes. I have dealers hold mine for much longer but then I am liked by the pit.

**Three** · 09-21-2013, 08:21 AM

If he is talking about backcounting after wonging out while sitting at the table, he is already made. They will wait until he is a threat and ban him hoping he will lose his entire BR before he gets enough to be a threat.