hi,
Can CVCX/CVData simulate the Optional Bet Split Rule ?
Rider.jpg
James
James,
CVData does have the capability to handle the "discard split" rule, which is equivalent to playing a "rider" strategy where the ratio of (Big Bet)/(Small Bet) approaches infinity. For example, if the front bettor is betting $10 and the back bettor is betting $1000, then the ratio is 100, which is pretty close to infinity for this calculation.
On the other hand, if the ratio is small, like 5, then the "discard split" rule would not adequately represent the actual situation.
Are you looking just for B.S. results? If so, and if you have Green Chip access to bj21.com, you can see a post I made on this topic at this URL:
http://www.bj21.com/greenchip/theory...-hairy-splits/.
That post not only contains B.S. tables, it also describes the methodolgy used to derive them, in case your situation differs from those covered.
Hope this helps!
Dog Hand
Dog Hand,
here are the BS for ES10 :-
Table1.jpgTable2.jpg
James
James,
What's missing are the EV's for the various split hands. For example, you show that 66 vs. 8 is a Hit (because Hit is the highest-EV play). But that doesn't tell us how MUCH better Hitting is than Splitting. For example, if the Hit EV is -0.279301 and the Split EV is -0.416429, then you'd want to use a Defensive split (so the big bettor would NOT put out additional money) as long as the Ratio of (Big Bet)/(Small Bet) is 1.92 or larger. But we cannot calculate these Ratios without knowing the EV's for the best play and for splitting for each potential split hand.
By the way, the Critical Ratio (about 1.92, in this case) is calculated by this equation:
Critical Ratio = (2-(2*(Best EV)/(Split EV)))/((2*(Best EV)/(Split EV))-1).
If you can supply these EV's, I can calculate the Rider strategy and how much it's worth.
Dog Hand
Hi Dog Hand,
I think you can use MGP's BJ Analyzer to compute best EV and split EV.
http://www.blackjackinfo.com/MGP_BJCA_Setup.zip.
After installation, launch MGP's BJ CA, input all the BJ rules(see image1) and hit "calculate now"(near top of the page), after few seconds, a new window " MGP's BJ CA Results Analysis" will appear, then you can see the HE(-0.168% for my case), then click "strategies"(near top of page), click "CD soft/pairs". On the right hand side, click cell for 6,6 vs 8 in "Pair CD strategy", then it will show all EV's for split, hit, stand, double(see image2).....You can get the EV's for other hands, 2,2 vs 7, 3,3 vs 8 . .. by just click the relevant cells.
image1.jpg
image2.jpg
Let me know
James
James989,
I finally finished typing in all the numbers from MGP's software... I was kind of hoping you'd do that for me, since the results are for you!
At any rate, for your 6D, S17, DAS, ES10, NHC (BB+1) rider game with the ratio of the big bet to the small bet of 25:1, I found that, with optimal strategy, your "team" does have +EV... though not very much: you'll make 0.00511 units per round, where the "unit" is the small bettor's initial wager. Thus, every 200 rounds you'll earn about 1 small wager... but at least it's +EV!
The big bettor's strategy yields an IBA of +0.040%, while the small bettor's "crazy splitting" strategy has an IBA of -0.489%. (Using pure B.S., by the way, gives an IBA of -0.163% with the strategy generated by MGP's software.) Thus, you can see that the small bettor is giving up quite a bit of EV to make the big bettor's EV positive.
Here is the tabular output of the splitting strategy. "D" is the dealer's upcard, "Pair" is your pair, "DAS BS EV" is the EV for the best play for normal B.S. (for a DAS game), "DAS BS" is the normal B.S. move, "DAS Crit. R" is the critical ratio of (big bet)/(small bet) (so if your ratio is less than the Critical R, you would NOT alter the B.S.... note though that all of the R values are less than 8, so you'll make ALL the moves), "New BS" is the new B.S. move, where "PU" means "sPlit Unequal" (the defensive splits that the big bettor will NOT follow) and "PE" means "sPlit Equal" (the offensive splits that the big bettor WILL make). Of course, if the "New BS" column says H, S, or D, you'll make the indicated move.
The last column shows that, for a Ratio of 25, this rider strategy will increase the big bettor's BS EV by 0.1720% overall, then for each unequal split it shows the gain to the big bettor (in "big bet" units): thus, if the small bettor splits 8,8 vs. A rather than hits, the big bettor gains just over 0.3 "big bet units", or about 7.5 small bet units for a 25:1 ratio.
Note that now, you will NOT surrender 7,7 vs. X or 8,8 vs. X, since the "team" EV is higher with PU than ES for these plays.
Hope this helps!Code:
D Pair DAS DAS DAS New Ratio=25 BS EV BS Crit. R BS 0.1720% A A,A -0.223037 P 0.00 PU 0.107229 A 2,2 -0.486005 H 4.15 PU>4.15 0.063312 A 3,3 -0.523789 H 3.45 PU>3.44 0.079668 A 4,4 -0.447678 H -29.54 H 0.000000 A 5,5 -0.253552 H -3.00 H 0.000000 A 6,6 -0.556420 H 7.94 PU>7.93 0.036745 A 7,7 -0.619978 H 1.76 PU>1.75 0.147526 A 8,8 -0.664681 H 0.09 PU>0.09 0.304365 A 9,9 -0.374835 S 1.69 PU>1.69 0.090997 A 10,10 0.151246 S -1.70 S 0.000000 2 A,A 0.485870 P 0.00 PE 0.000000 2 2,2 -0.077656 P 0.00 PU 0.037335 2 3,3 -0.133281 P 0.00 PU 0.064078 2 4,4 -0.019850 H -2.27 H 0.000000 2 5,5 0.373180 D -1.27 D 0.000000 2 6,6 -0.196852 P 0.00 PU 0.094640 2 7,7 -0.119776 P 0.00 PU 0.057585 2 8,8 0.081885 P 0.00 PE 0.000000 2 9,9 0.197956 P 0.00 PE 0.000000 2 10,10 0.637885 S -0.90 S 0.000000 3 A,A 0.533182 P 0.00 PE 0.000000 3 2,2 -0.005991 P 0.00 PU 0.002880 3 3,3 -0.049280 P 0.00 PU 0.023692 3 4,4 0.011580 H -1.80 H 0.000000 3 5,5 0.425665 D -1.18 D 0.000000 3 6,6 -0.098839 P 0.00 PU 0.047519 3 7,7 -0.028215 P 0.00 PU 0.013565 3 8,8 0.154534 P 0.00 PE 0.000000 3 9,9 0.252570 P 0.00 PE 0.000000 3 10,10 0.647984 S -0.82 S 0.000000 4 A,A 0.582709 P 0.00 PE 0.000000 4 2,2 0.069425 P 0.00 PE 0.000000 4 3,3 0.049555 P 0.00 PE 0.000000 4 4,4 0.048027 H -0.96 H 0.000000 4 5,5 0.481119 D -1.09 D 0.000000 4 6,6 0.004609 P 0.00 PE 0.000000 4 7,7 0.072122 P 0.00 PE 0.000000 4 8,8 0.223481 P 0.00 PE 0.000000 4 9,9 0.320554 P 0.00 PE 0.000000 4 10,10 0.658450 S -0.73 S 0.000000 5 A,A 0.633923 P 0.00 PE 0.000000 5 2,2 0.174105 P 0.00 PE 0.000000 5 3,3 0.154027 P 0.00 PE 0.000000 5 4,4 0.111389 P 0.00 PE 0.000000 5 5,5 0.540491 D -0.99 D 0.000000 5 6,6 0.112394 P 0.00 PE 0.000000 5 7,7 0.160364 P 0.00 PE 0.000000 5 8,8 0.303844 P 0.00 PE 0.000000 5 9,9 0.393899 P 0.00 PE 0.000000 5 10,10 0.670892 S -0.62 S 0.000000 6 A,A 0.682366 P 0.00 PE 0.000000 6 2,2 0.240164 P 0.00 PE 0.000000 6 3,3 0.216345 P 0.00 PE 0.000000 6 4,4 0.167593 P 0.00 PE 0.000000 6 5,5 0.598853 D -0.95 D 0.000000 6 6,6 0.158403 P 0.00 PE 0.000000 6 7,7 0.248859 P 0.00 PE 0.000000 6 8,8 0.405689 P 0.00 PE 0.000000 6 9,9 0.463967 P 0.00 PE 0.000000 6 10,10 0.702826 S -0.53 S 0.000000 7 A,A 0.475600 P 0.00 PE 0.000000 7 2,2 0.008509 P 0.00 PE 0.000000 7 3,3 -0.051174 P 0.00 PU 0.024603 7 4,4 0.086616 H -1.49 H 0.000000 7 5,5 0.404746 D -1.27 D 0.000000 7 6,6 -0.220562 H 0.34 PU>0.34 0.089339 7 7,7 -0.048469 P 0.00 PU 0.023302 7 8,8 0.318719 P 0.00 PE 0.000000 7 9,9 0.399576 S -0.16 S 0.000000 7 10,10 0.772011 S -0.77 S 0.000000 8 A,A 0.359708 P 0.00 PE 0.000000 8 2,2 -0.156790 H 0.29 PU>0.29 0.065024 8 3,3 -0.219182 H 0.11 PU>0.10 0.099456 8 4,4 -0.059090 H -2.57 H 0.000000 8 5,5 0.293033 D -1.44 D 0.000000 8 6,6 -0.279301 H 1.92 PU>1.91 0.063265 8 7,7 -0.377709 H 0.07 PU>0.07 0.174941 8 8,8 -0.029064 P 0.00 PU 0.013973 8 9,9 0.229801 P 0.00 PE 0.000000 8 10,10 0.790420 S -0.96 S 0.000000 9 A,A 0.237754 P 0.00 PE 0.000000 9 2,2 -0.237873 H 3.19 PU>3.19 0.038406 9 3,3 -0.295264 H 1.71 PU>1.70 0.071369 9 4,4 -0.209848 H -6.76 H 0.000000 9 5,5 0.149188 D -1.68 D 0.000000 9 6,6 -0.347155 H 5.48 PU>5.48 0.034841 9 7,7 -0.437912 H 0.89 PU>0.89 0.140439 9 8,8 -0.389371 P 0.00 PU 0.187198 9 9,9 -0.081416 P 0.00 PU 0.039142 9 10,10 0.756075 S -1.12 S 0.000000 10 A,A 0.097833 P 0.00 PE 0.000000 10 2,2 -0.342582 H 4.44 PU>4.44 0.042027 10 3,3 -0.390229 H 3.02 PU>3.02 0.065662 10 4,4 -0.306402 H -9.39 H 0.000000 10 5,5 -0.052625 H -2.15 H 0.000000 10 6,6 -0.430369 H 7.00 PU>6.99 0.033118 10 7,7 -0.500000 R 1.37 PU>1.37 0.134717 10 8,8 -0.500000 R 0.19 PU>0.18 0.218114 10 9,9 -0.235462 S 3.75 PU>3.75 0.033446 10 10,10 0.438046 S -1.34 S 0.000000
Dog Hand
Dog Hand,
Thanks for your amazing analysis ! Please check your PM.
I am using CVDATA and apply your split strategy for small and big bettor (see images below)and the IBA EV(big bettor) = +0.019% and IBA EV(small bettor) = -0.515%.
SPLIT-SB.jpgSPLIT-BB.jpg
How you obtained positive edge EV = +0.040% for big bettor ? You assumed OBO(American) rules or BB + 1 rules ?
James
Last edited by James989; 09-19-2013 at 07:15 AM.
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