New guy Poker player has questions about Blackjack

[Pokerplayer]

Hello, Blackjack world! I'm brand new to the forums although I've been lurking for most of this month trying to pick up whatever I can. I'm a poker player as my name can tell you(I do this on the side for a second income) and I recently fell down the rabbit hole of card counting and general AP play.

I've read most of Norms book and have practiced a little. I realize I am nowhere near ready to take on this challenge but I wanted to get some more info before starting this adventure.

My main question is how beatable the games are in their current state and how that compares to poker? Even playing low stakes online or up to 2-5 live you can get a decent hourly. I live in Chicago and would want to start out counting for low stakes to get the feel for things. I wouldn't want to travel more than a few hours and want to know if this is even doable at the casinos in my area. I don't want to put in a ton of hours training to find out that the games aren't beatable or are too sweaty to build up a nice BJ bankroll.

Now from the posts I've read it seems like you need to be playing "chunky green" to get anywhere close to a reasonable hourly rate. Am I way off on this and missing something? What would be a reasonable hourly rate for someone playing reds?

My last question is about barrings. It seems like this is a given for counters. If you are backed off from a casino are you also barred from playing other games like poker? I would hate to lose the best and practically only card room in the area because I was counting.

Thanks to anyone that can help. This seems like a great community and I'm happy I finally joined.

Pokerplayer

[mofungoo]

I've gotten back into blackjack after a nearly 10 year layoff where I played poker exclusively. Playing blackjack is very different from playing poker mostly due to a need for constant concentration on the count vs concentration and math only when involved in a poker hand. Poker and blackjack are a good combination - when the casino is uncrowded blackjack conditions are generally good and crowded conditions are good for the poker games.

Another difference between the two games is the necessity to play error-free blackjack all of the time. When learning BJ first learn Basic Strategy until it is automatic, then learn how to count until you can scan a deck in 25 seconds or less with no errors at all over 25 decks. Then you can learn to true count and learn and implement index numbers for strategy changes according to the true count. One step at a time and do not try to learn more until you are perfect.

When you are ready to go into the casino, after several months of practice perhaps, start small and don't raise your stakes until you have it all down pat and have made money, possibly 6 months or so. Have enough bankroll for several hundred maximum bets at whatever stakes you are playing.

I wouldn't worry too much about heat at first when playing low stakes. When you are ready to raise the stakes you should have a feel for the tolerance levels where you play. Good luck and good cards!

[Pokerplayer]

Thanks Mo! This might not be a question that people will answer but does anyone know if there are beatable games near Chicago. You don't have to say where just am honest yes or no will help me out. If I know there are decent games I will do the scouting when I have perfected my play in several months.

[ZenMaster_Flash]

Casino protocol certainly vary considerably. In practice, there are many levels of "barrings."

There are many casinos where I am "86'd" -- unable to play blackjack; (dating to 1985).

There are several casinos (in five states) where I am an (official) "TRESPASS", meaning

that I am (legally) barred from the entire property of a casino and its "sister properties",

meaning those enterprises with common ownership.


RE: Chicagoland:


In reality there are very few games in IL, KY, IN that are more than "marginal games."

Furthermore, you are moving in the "wrong" direction, as so to speak, as "the A.P. move"

is TO poker, not FROM poker. For those who are good poker players, moving to BJ is
fraught with stress and uncertainty. A long while back I "tested myself" and found out that
I could play "limit poker" at the $20-40 level and expect to earn one "small blind" an hour
($20 per hour); starkly insufficient for my needs, so I gave it up. If I had an expectation
of $30 per hour I would have had a more difficult situation to ponder. Actually, I was at that point where it would have taken but an easily achievable increment in my skill level to achieve that.

The "bottom-line" for me was that I was loathe to commit myself to a vocation spent in the company of people who I, most often, find to be an uncouth, and largely reprehensible (motley) sub-culture.

[Pokerplayer]

Zen master or anyone else familiar with the Chicago scene. Could you elaborate on your definition of marginal games? What sort of edge or hourly could a counter playing red chips get in these games? Do you mean it is close to 0?

[Jabberwocky]

They mean virtually unbeatable.

[Nomad]

Chicago is mostly unbeatable because the penetration is really terrible. I have heard Indiana is only slightly better. Anyone know about Michigan casinos?

[stopgambling]

How bad are the rules n pen ,just curious?

[21forme]

There are many casinos where I am "86'd" -- unable to play blackjack; (dating to 1985).
There are several casinos (in five states) where I am an (official) "TRESPASS", meaning
that I am (legally) barred from the entire property of a casino and its "sister properties",

Being 86'd and trespassed are synonymous.
Where you say "86'd," you mean backed off, or "you're free to play any game besides BJ."