What is a charity casino?

[Nyne]

These are good questions, for which I don't have the answer. Add to that that some Ontario casinos ("Charity" or not) are associated with the local Indian tribe.

My point with regard to these casinos is that they are professionally run casinos in every sense of the word, regulated and run by the provincial government. They are open 24/7, the games and side bets are the same revenue-generating machines that you would find in any independent casino and they protect them against intelligent players with the same vigour. The only difference is that the revenue goes to the government and is supposed to be spent on programs which benefit the community that hosts the casino. Like any casino, they set the rules and conditions and offer the games, knowing that they will make massive amounts of money in the process, much more than the tax payers would find acceptable via direct taxation.

To me, it's all shrouded in the same amount of false hope and misinformation as peddled by independent casinos and is pursued with the same intensity. For those reasons, if they are willing to offer the games and to take as much as they can, then I am willing to play them and do the same. As for the breakdown of the distribution, like any government revenue stream, it may be difficult, or impossible, to determine.

This sounds to me just like any other casino. A company runs a casino to try to make a profit, and the government taxes their profits to generate revenue for the government. I'd be interested in learning more if anyone else has any further info. I've never played in Canada, but if and when I do, I'd like to at least understand the situation before hammering a game. If it's just like any other taxed commercial casino, I wouldn't feel any grief about playing there. If every extra dollar of net win is a dollar going to charitable uses, then I'd steer clear.

[Gronbog]

This sounds to me just like any other casino. A company runs a casino to try to make a profit, and the government taxes their profits to generate revenue for the government.

From what I understand, the government gets all of the profit, not just tax on the profit, but I could be wrong.

In my mind it boils down to the government collecting taxes in an indirect way. They are able to collect much more than would be tolerated by the masses if they were to impose the tax directly, and they end up collecting, largely, from a segment of the population that can not afford to pay. The same goes for government-sponsered lotteries. Ontario also has lotteries run by hospitals as means to raise funds. They offer some pretty substantial prizes; among them, houses, cars and some large cash prizes.

Be it a government-run charity casino or a lottery, these are all programs designed to collect revenue and the reality that some of the players will win has been carefully factored into the bottom line. In each case, rules and conditions are spelled out , people are invited to participate, and in each case, they already know how much money they are going to make.

I don't feel bad if I win something on a lottery ticket (I don't re-donate the winnings to the target charities), I wouldn't expect anyone to sell the grand prize house and give the money back to the hospital, I don't see anything wrong with claiming as many legal deductions as I can on my taxes, and I don't see a problem with beating the government at its own game when it comes to the indirect taxation program represented by Ontario charity casinos.

It's been said several times during this thread, but it may bear repeating that these are entirely different beasts than local "casino night" events. In those cases, the people are usually there to support the charity directly and are happy to have some fun while making a donation that they would have made anyway. I whole-heartedly agree with this and would probably play for a while and make some fun plays, like borderline doubles and splits, for the hell of it, before simply giving my buy in and any winnings back to the dealer when I left. Ontario charity casinos, on the other hand are making most of their money from the same desperate gamblers as the independent casinos.

[Jabberwocky]

Charity=Con. Believe it!

[SystemsTrader]

How much of the net gaming win by the Canadian charity casinos goes to charity and how much goes to an operating company? Does it all go to charitable causes, or is a trivial amount used for that and the majority goes to whoever operates the casino? Or somewhere in between? I tried google but I'm apparently not using the right search terms.

Canadian charity casinos are really a misnomer, there are five of them in Ontario and they no longer are allowed to use the term charity casino. They operate for profit but must make a 5% donation of machine revenue only to designated charities. Table game revenue is not donated so go nuts and don't feel any guilt what so ever.

[Nyne]

Thank you SystemsTrader for that response. I had heard before that they were basically for-profit casinos but didn't know the details.

[Freightman]

Charity casinos fall into 2 categories. The first is the church type, poorly funded, with the inexperienced dealers etc, missing cards et al that you really don want to beat up.

Numerous Canadian jurisdictions have charity casinos - all that means is that the provincial Governments, through their gaming arms, allow registered Canadian charities to staff the cash cage, under supervision, in order to raise money for their groups.

As an example, in my jurisdiction, I probably work at a half dozen or so charity casinos every 18 month cycle. For the 2 days that the particular charity is licensed for, the charity will make somewhere between 65k to 100 k for its efforts. Enormous returns for actually little work. The charity, the government and the casino all share in the profits, tables, and slots are paid out in different percentages. Pooling over several casinos spread out over 90 day cycles evens out the payout to the charities involved. I quite often get strange looks from casino staff when I am volunteering (unpaid) for a particular charity.

There is no need to take a soft shoe against this scenario - go after it for all you can get.

[Paddler]

To be exact Freightman, if you do the math, we as volunteers make $200/hr for our charity. I did 4 casino shifts last year, which ironically raised the funds necessary for my organization to hire me full-time last summer. i believe in our locale, about 40% of slot profit, and 60% of table games profit goes into the charity pool, then it's divided evenly by those charities that worked casinos in that quarter.

btw- the only personal pay that is given to the volunteers is free food and drinks from the casino resturant. And your organization will cover your travel expenses if you travel more than 100km from your home city.

[Nyne]

I believe in our locale, about 40% of slot profit, and 60% of table games profit goes into the charity pool, then it's divided evenly by those charities that worked casinos in that quarter.

Does this conflict with SystemsTrader's post, or is this in a different province?

[Freightman]

It is a different province - paddler is slightly off on his percentages, but the concept is essentially correct. I didn't think of it on a per hour basis, but rather approx $1500 per person per shift, about the same result as Paddlers numbers.

[Freightman]

Should also point out that use if funds must conform to Provincial mandates.

[stopgambling]

Statham thanks for the coffee. You know who you are! Thanks for you insights. I am green! Take care cream of the crops (1 and 2 ,or 2 and 1) LOL See you .

[frankd]

I've been playing at the Great Blue Heron (one hour outside of Toronto), for about 10 years.
They still use the words "Charity Casino" in their name and logo.
Not once in those 10 year and many 1000s of hours of play did it occur to me that maybe I should feel "conflicted" about taking money from them because of their "Charity" status. Hell, not even my wife (who has much higher moral standards than me) had thought of that (if she had, I would have heard about it).
Now I do donate to charities of my choice. But the first nations organization that runs the table games there are running this as a business... I and i consider my visits there also purely 'business trips' and not for altruistic purposes...