Is it worth using 1/4 decks estimation in 4-8 deck games?

[D.A.]

An extra thought if you really don't want to look at the discard rack...use 2.7 cards per hand times the number of hands played. 4 player hands equals a quarter deck on average per round.

[ZenKinG]

Short answer, NO

[iCountNTrack]

If you play pitch games you might as well use 1/4 deck resolution. For shoe games 1/2 deck resolution is more than enough, and you will catch most of the advantage even at high true count values.

Picture from my boss's book :grin:

[Purple Rain]

There's a big difference between 3,4 and 5 like you mentioned previously.

I guess it comes down to how you approach the game. While it's true being off by small amounts might have only a minimal impact, that's a slippery slope and not something we are comfortable with when we play. It doesn't take that much mental effort to calculate the TC so why settle for anything but the most accurate info you can get? Counting is already a small enough edge.

It's a matter of practicality to me. For one, following an exact betting ramp in line with the TC is easier for the eye to detect. Following your ramp less strictly can serve as cover with minimal sacrifices to EV and variance, and it can allow you to focus on more important things -- the count, heat, your act, dealer mispays, ratholing, the speed of the game.

It's also a matter of skill level -- some people can calculate the TC quicker than others. I avoid calculating it exactly because I can't always do it in time, but I still use it pretty accurately. For example, if the RC is +10 and it's very early in the shoe, I know the TC is closer to 2 than any other whole number. I don't need to think, "There's half a deck in the tray, so 5.5 left, and 10 / 5.5 = 1.8, which rounds to 2." If the RC is +10 and it's very late in the shoe, I don't need to look at the discard tray to know it's time for a max bet.

[Password is Taco]

If you play pitch games you might as well use 1/4 deck resolution. For shoe games 1/2 deck resolution is more than enough, and you will catch most of the advantage even at high true count values.

Picture from my boss's book :grin:

Sorry for my ignorance, but is the x value of the graph the TC? And the y value the % advantage? And since for the most part, max bet is out at +6 or so, and every count higher is still going to be the same bet as that +6 TC bet, there's a very small difference in advantage between the red line and blue/green lines? So one would only be giving away very minimal EV by using full deck estimation? Correct me if I'm wrong, and learning half deck estimation doesn't really seem difficult, but I just thought there would be a better advantage to it over full deck.

I would agree its completely different with SD and DD. Quarter deck est is easier then.

[21gunsalute]

An extra thought if you really don't want to look at the discard rack...use 2.7 cards per hand times the number of hands played. 4 player hands equals a quarter deck on average per round.

Except that if the count is high you will likely have seen much more than 2.7 cards per hand.

[D.A.]

Except that if the count is high you will likely have seen much more than 2.7 cards per hand.

Very true which is why I don't advocate shortcuts in the first place. If using this shortcut it'd really only be for 1-2 rounds, not an entire shoe.

I agree there is little gain from 1/4 deck estimates in shoe games but I think another factor is overlooked. If you are using 1/2 deck estimates and your estimates are poor you can be off by a larger enough factor that your decisions are negatively impacted. If you are using 1/4 decks and are off by 1/4 deck there is virtually no harm done.