Noobie Resources?

**fatcatsfighting** · 06-19-2013, 05:19 PM

So I've been a recreational blackjack player for a bit and my knowledge pretty much ends at knowing basic strategy to the tee. However, recently I've had the time, and well, the intrigue to delve deeper into the intricacies of counting and advance strategies of blackjack.

Although, I'm having a hard time finding resources or building blocks to further my knowledge. I'm glad I found this forum, but 99% of the acronyms people are using are straight up confusing. Anyone know of beginner resources to further counting knowledge? I still don't know exactly how the count directly correlates with what I can expect on a next card. How much of an increase in % of a high card does a +5 vs +10 count(and does this only affect face+Ace cards?) and vice versa for a negative count.

Programs, bankroll advice, and other advice also appreciated!

**BigJer** · 06-19-2013, 05:24 PM

Do you have CVBJ?

**metronome** · 06-19-2013, 05:30 PM

Have you purchased any of the books by respected BJ authors. Have you read everything Norm has provided on this site as well as Ken Smiths archived site http://www.blackjackinfo.com/
These are great starting points as to theory and nomenclature.

**Intermediate** · 06-19-2013, 05:53 PM

I like to steer people towards some of the better books on the subject rather than websites. Books are well structured and someone who is overwhelmed with all the acronyms, subjects, stories, etc. can get grounded better through the books. That's not to say they shouldn't dive into the great threads and wealth at this forum and others, but sometimes the extra structure of a book helps sort out all the information online. That being said, I recommend for starters:

Professional Blackjack, by Stanford Wong
Blackbelt in Blackjack, by Arnold Snyder
Modern Blackjack, by Norm Wattenburger. (Free copy at http://www.qfit.com/book/index.htm )

After getting comfortable with the bascs of card counting, I would recommend picking up a copy of

Blackjack Attack v3, by Don Schlesinger

Everyone has their favorites to recommend, so you'll find previous threads on this exact topic with lots of other great recommendations.

**Stealth** · 06-19-2013, 05:59 PM

Originally Posted by fatcatsfighting

So I've been a recreational blackjack player for a bit and my knowledge pretty much ends at knowing basic strategy to the tee. However, recently I've had the time, and well, the intrigue to delve deeper into the intricacies of counting and advance strategies of blackjack.

Although, I'm having a hard time finding resources or building blocks to further my knowledge. I'm glad I found this forum, but 99% of the acronyms people are using are straight up confusing. Anyone know of beginner resources to further counting knowledge? I still don't know exactly how the count directly correlates with what I can expect on a next card. How much of an increase in % of a high card does a +5 vs +10 count(and does this only affect face+Ace cards?) and vice versa for a negative count.

Programs, bankroll advice, and other advice also appreciated!

Many others have correctly suggested you read all the literature that has accumulated on the subject and I concur this is a path to advantage play. However,before you delve in I might suggest you get, and read, Blackjack Life by Nathaniel Tilton. While it chronicles the true story of two very bright guys path to advantage play, it more importantly, will provide you the insight into what is in front of you and how deep you want to go. Plus it's just a good read!

Then if you want to go forward, PM (after you overcome the number of post hurdle) me and I will talk you through a suggested (required) reading list to put you on the path.

Come on in , the waters fine (a little deep in places, though!).

Stealth

RS · 06-19-2013, 06:00 PM

If you haven't already, go through the "school" here: http://www.blackjackinfo.com/blackjack-school/

I wouldn't get CVBJ or CVCX quite yet, just because you might not be interested in counting cards, and I think the two total around $200 or $250?

I would just go through it and read it, do some of the drills, but don't do things like making flashcards or whatever... Just read it and get a bit of knowledge or understanding of what counting is and how it works.

The game starts off with an RC (Running Count) of 0. It also starts off with some house advantage, let's just say the house advantage is 0.4%. The RC tells us how many more low cards have come out in comparison to high cards (or high cards in comparison to low cards). If the count is +3, then 3 extra low cards have come out compared to high cards. If the count is -6, then 6 extra high cards have come out compared to low cards.

When you figure out the TC (True Count), which is dividing the RC by how many decks are remaining in the shoe -- this number tells you how much the house edge has shifted. On average, every shift of 1 TC is a shift of 0.5% house edge. So, if we started off with 0.4% HE (House Edge) and the TC is -3, the house edge is now 1.9%. If the TC is 1, the house edge is -0.1% (ie: the player has a 0.1% edge). The player typically won't increase his bet until he has at least a 0.5% edge over the house.

But you don't need to remember "multiply the TC by 0.5 then add/subtract that to the original house edge...then make a bet according to that". All you have to remember is "When the TC is 2, I bet X money. When the TC is 3, I bet Y money. When the TC is 4 or more, I bet Z money."

Few tips of advice:

- You're going to need a lot more money than you think to play a proper "winning" game. You play with a small edge, and you can quite easily lose a lot of money -- that's why you need a big bankroll to sustain the ups and downs (well, sustain the downs, at least!).
- It takes a lot of time and practice to do well. You don't just learn it in a few days or weeks then hit the casino. It's a game of cat & mouse of you verse the casino, you want to be on your A game when you go in there, not being all obvious you're counting the cards, unable to keep conversation, etc.
- You're going to need to find some good games to play. Dealer stays on soft 17 (S17) is better than dealer hits soft 17 (H17). Double After Split (DAS) is permitted is better than it not being permitted. 3:2 payout on a BJ ("snapper", "natural", etc.) is a must -- 6:5 is, for all things being equal, impossible to beat. If they offer Late Surrender, that's a huge bonus to the counter (because when you get a 16 v 10 and you have a max bet out, you're going to want to surrender, so it saves you quite a bit on variance). You also want to find games that deal out a lot of cards before they shuffle. Try to play 5/6 pen (83%) if you're playing 6-deck (6D) or at least 1.25/2.0 (66%) pen for DD (2 deck). 1.0/2.0 pen for DD is alright, but will be difficult to beat unless you're playing heads up (just you and dealer, no other players).
- CSMs (Continious Shuffle Machines) are bad because once you count a card, it gets put back into the revolving shoe. Do not try to count a CSM game. (The only time you'd play a CSM game is if there is some kind of promo that gives the player an edge off the top...for example, if blackjack pays 2:1, that is usually enough to give the player an advantage...........crazy huh?)

As for learning a count, you'll probably want to learn Hi-Lo as it's basically universal language and everyone will know (for the most part) what you're talking about. If you ask a question regarding something in the Omega II system, I don't think many people use that system.

Also buy books, books books!!! Research stuff, search google, look through the forums, look on other forums. If you see something that's interesting but are unsure if it's valid, post here and ask. Lots of times people will come up with "voodoo" strategies (ie: they don't work) by saying "if you lose 3 hands in a row, increase your bet because you're due to win" or something about the "flow of the cards" as if the magical BJ gods have arranged the order of the cards in some specific way...

**fatcatsfighting** · 06-19-2013, 06:16 PM

My lord this forum is amazing! Thank you all for all the detailed responses and resources. But this is great, wasn't even aware of CVBJ and the blackjack school links. Will research more of these things later tonight.

**AP2win** · 06-19-2013, 08:44 PM

I can't recommend Norm's software suite enough. I used CVData to deeply analyze BJ, compare strategies under different circumstances or with various changes, to assist in choosing my count system, and later to tweak my own indices to essentially maximize my potential at my given level of proficiency. I used - and continue to use - CVBJ to practice and hone my game. Finally, I use CVCX daily to determine my post EV for every session (by entering actual playing conditions) and to ensure that my betting ramps are optimal, as well as to keep track of my floating ROR, etc.

Even so, I agree that buying the software can wait until you've gone through the free offerings and a few (relatively) cheap books to determine if counting is right for you.

Good luck with your endeavors.

**Alt** · 06-19-2013, 09:10 PM

fatcatsfighting have you considered doing a card counting course run by experienced blackjack professionals? A course will cost more but it might save you alot of time.

**Alt** · 06-19-2013, 11:38 PM

Professional Blackjack by Stanford Wong would be a good place to start.

**George C** · 06-20-2013, 09:33 AM

Originally Posted by Intermediate

I like to steer people towards some of the better books on the subject rather than websites. Books are well structured and someone who is overwhelmed with all the acronyms, subjects, stories, etc. can get grounded better through the books. That's not to say they shouldn't dive into the great threads and wealth at this forum and others, but sometimes the extra structure of a book helps sort out all the information online. That being said, I recommend for starters:

Professional Blackjack, by Stanford Wong
Blackbelt in Blackjack, by Arnold Snyder
Modern Blackjack, by Norm Wattenburger. (Free copy at http://www.qfit.com/book/index.htm )

After getting comfortable with the bascs of card counting, I would recommend picking up a copy of

Blackjack Attack v3, by Don Schlesinger

Everyone has their favorites to recommend, so you'll find previous threads on this exact topic with lots of other great recommendations.

Great choices!!!!

**Baberuth** · 06-22-2013, 05:22 AM

Books are important, but the archives here are excellent. Click advanced search and put in Key Word "Cover" and there is more about cover from many contributors here than any book. You can do this for any subject you want to search. You will get information from others who give their experiences from different areas, casinos and different levels of play. An excellent compliment to the fine books mentioned.