Indian Reservations Cheating?

[ThePokeMaster]

Hey guys, I was reading a forum online the other day and was hoping if some of the more experienced Blackjack players could shed some light on this topic, because it has to do with the local casino I play at (Sycuan Casino in San Diego). I read that at their 6 deck games, there's a possibility that they take out a few 10's and add 5's to the decks. Anyone ever heard of this rumor or has suspected this? Thanks in advance for the responses.

[BugsySeagull]

Before they open up a table, do they take new decks of cards out of their boxes and lay them out on the table to count them out for all to see? Do they sell used decks at the gift shop? If the answer is no to either of these questions, I'd be suspicious.

[RS]

I've always been suspicious of that place. Although I haven't played a ton there, it seems the count is almost always positive...and even then, I'm stumped when I don't see aces or faces coming out, but that could definitely be variance due to a small sample. IIRC, they have all ASMs. Not sure if they spread the cards out when they come in.

You have any experience (regarding the subject) with Barona or Viejas? PM if sensitive.

[BigJer]

Before they open up a table, do they take new decks of cards out of their boxes and lay them out on the table to count them out for all to see? Do they sell used decks at the gift shop? If the answer is no to either of these questions, I'd be suspicious.

BTW at a place I go to they don't sell/give away the old decks. They burn them later. They do spread them out before the shuffle.

[ThePokeMaster]

That's another thing I forgot to mention, is that I have been there for 8-10 hours on a few sessions and I noticed that they do not change their cards. Other casino's around the area change their cards every 2 hours or so, and they spread the cards out in front of you to show you. I'm not sure if they sell the used cards at the gift shop or not, that's something I will have to look into as well. Thanks for the reply.

[shadroch]

The longer the cards stay in play, the easier it is to recognize some of them by their backs.

[ThePokeMaster]

I actually have not suspected this at Viejas or Barona, because they spread out the cards in front of me when changing them. And I agree, the count always seems positive at Sycuan for some reason, but I don't know, maybe I should just stay away from that place, although there are nights when dealers give great pen and you can play 85% of the game on the 6 deck game.

[bigplayer]

Some tribal casinos have been caught cheating, you will have practically zero recourse.

[Kat]

The longer the cards stay in play, the easier it is to recognize some of them by their backs.

They are much easier to spot if you mark them with invisible ink.
.

[AndretheGiant]

Selling used cards in the gift shop has no relation to whether or not a casino is shorting the decks.They easily could put the decks back together and sell them.Many casinos do not sell used cards.

[dhizzle]

Andre --

I actually do think it would help to look at the used decks as the majority of them would come from blackjack shoes and you would be able to see uneven wear on the card that were taken out of play (both from the decks with 10's removed and from the decks where only a few of the 5's have been used).

On another note, I think it is much less common than people think for casinos to cheat. Think of the cost in terms of public relations. Casinos ALWAYS have unhappy employees, and many many people on the inside would have to know about it as they generally have someone open the decks, someone sort the decks, someone cancel the decks, etc. At some point one of the people is going to get either greedy (i.e. blackmail) or angry and go to the press, etc.

Does cheating happen? Yes. But 99% of the time that people suspect they are being cheated, it is really just negative variance.

Just my $0.02

Hizzle