Taking advantage of pinnacle's $500 loss rebate

[KC_APS]

Evening Folks,

I just wondered how best to take advantage of the $500 loss rebate pinnacle casinos offer? Any thoughts? They will be standard 1.5 / 6 pen H17 DAS DOA games, and I could play anything up to a 25-200 spread with my bankroll. I figured I could play heavy for my bankroll (lets call it 10k) for the first session hoping to double a usual win, then if I lose to the rebate amount then play the second session normally.

From what I have read you get 2 x $250 vouchers to use as the rebate, so it would have to be a separate session altogether.

Thanks!

[shadroch]

are the vouchers each good for a $250 bet or can you break it down into chips?

[bigplayer]

Flat Bet $500, if you lose immediately stop. If you get ahead $1000 quit. When you get the mail coupons how you use them depends on the rules. Are they good for one shot or good until they lose? If good only for one shot for even money bets you'd be better off using them at Baccarat (on Banker) or Craps (Don't Pass Line). If good until they lose and pay 3/2 on BJ use them just like you would cash. I would not be shocked at a "bait and switch" where your $500 rebate is really two $250 one shot coupons so your rebate is only $250. Check the rules and inquire as to what type of coupons they give. Sometimes the offer you a choice between $500 in one shot coupons vs $500 in free slot play...in this case the free slot play is a vastly superior option.

Hope this helps.

[ZenMaster_Flash]

bigplayer is 100% correct.

I will add that the free slot plays are the best choice by far

because in most venues they are worth 90%+ of face value.

[Mr. White]

I'm sure I just need to study the resources, but would you expand on why the slot play is the better play?

With a low house edge bet, i.e. banker at 1.06 percent, would this not be the play with more expected value from a rebate vs the 90 percent value of the free slot play?

Is it the variance of the one shot bet that makes it the relatively unattractive choice, or.. what am I missing...?

[Mr. White]

Thanks 3.

On that note, what is the best way to go about finding a machine's, or the casino's, typical return? Is there a good resource, or does it just take some Googling?

[shadroch]

In Atlantic City, each casino reports percentages from each month by denomination. In Vegas, they do it by region- Strip, Downtown, Boulder Highway, Laughlin.
some casinos will mark a machine saying it paid out over X last month, but past performance is close to meaningless.
Strictly Slots and the LVA certify casinos that meet their loose slots criteria. Only two I'm aware of in Vegas are The Palms and El Cortez. That doesn't mean too much though because most casinos won't open their books up to get certified by them.
Viideo Poker machines have a scheduled payback- read the paytable and you can figure out their pay outs.

[KC_APS]

Great info thanks - and clearly I need to ascertain exactly how these coupons work. I have done a little research and it seems sometimes they will let you exchange for actual chips - in which case one would either leave even (assuming losing $500 the first time) when you get the chips or play AP normally. I was thinking of giving it an hour bc and wong in at a nice TC and then play two hands at $250, win both leave, win one play the same again or win lose then wait for the coupons.

[njrich]

Viideo Poker machines have a scheduled payback- read the paytable and you can figure out their pay outs

Can you elaborate on this a little more?
How do you figure out the pay outs?

[mofungoo]

The Wizard's site has the info:

http://wizardofodds.com/games/video-poker/

[bigplayer]

Thanks 3.

On that note, what is the best way to go about finding a machine's, or the casino's, typical return? Is there a good resource, or does it just take some Googling?

On slots you really never know. You can check the back of Strictly Slots or Casino Player Magazine to see what a certain denomination returns...but it's safe to assume 88% to 95% with the higher the denomination the higher the return. For VP you can determine the payback by looking at the paytable with an average payback of around 98%. Note, the returns in the back of the magazine are a combination of VP and Slots so that skews the returns upward. If $1 Slots say 93% you can assume that it's probably a few points lower than that.

[njrich]

For VP you can determine the payback by looking at the paytable with an average payback of around 98%.

I have the charts from Wizard's site but i was thinking more along the line
of how many hands are played before a Royal is dealt I saw a chart on it but i can't remember where. I think it was around 40,000.
It's probably on his site also.

[shadroch]

The pay outs are based on a 40,000 hand cycle, but you can get back to back Royal on any two hands. Its like BJ. Play it often enough and you'll see almost any result.
On a 100 play at the 4Qs, I held three to a royal and got eight royals out of it. Another time I held four to a Royal and got zero Royals. The expected number is around two.
I've gone 15-20 hands without even a high pair on some 9/6 games, and had a winnning hand six times in a row on the same machine the same day.