BJC: Ace Side Count

[BJC]

Good Day All

It seems that where ever I look on the internet boards when it comes to keeping ace side counts, so many players or posters are under the same impression or respond in the same manner. Keeping Ace side counts is not worth the extra work.

When playing with 6d an extra 3 aces can easily change the TC by +/- 1 which can create an over or under betting situation. More importantly the composition of the shoe may be more favorable in close situations.

Many books mentions the use of them especially for betting purposes, so why dispose of the option? If I set the sims up properly using CVData, I came up with a SCORE of 49.32 w/ASC vs 46.20 w/o ASC. (6d,DAS,LS,S17) Although it seems
like a small amount the N0 is a lower 20,276 vs 21,647.

When I first started I used the Ace side count, but dropped it to improve my counting abilities first. Lately I occasionally count the aces to see how the shoes running but do not alter my betting strategy. During the past 2 weekends I had a few shoes where a high number of ace's at the beginning of the shoe (6-10 in the 1st D) provided few BJ's but resulted in very high positive counts when I backed the Ace count out of the equation. After reviewing my play yesterday I thought about some logical reason why I shouldn't keep the ASC, and still can not find one. I believe even Revere gives four reasons to keep ASC.

Don, I read somewhere that you use RPC also. What is your opinion on the use of ASC for betting purposes?

Thanks

BJC

[Don Schlesinger]

> Good Day All

> It seems that where ever I look on the internet boards
> when it comes to keeping ace side counts, so many
> players or posters are under the same impression or
> respond in the same manner. Keeping Ace side counts is
> not worth the extra work.

That's because, aside from single-deck, which is just about as extinct as the dinosaurs, and maybe double-deck, for insurance purposes, it isn't worth the extra work. This assumes, of course, an ace-reckoned count in the first place.
>
> When playing with 6d an extra 3 aces can easily change
> the TC by +/- 1 which can create an over or under
> betting situation. More importantly the composition of
> the shoe may be more favorable in close situations.

Instead of arguing specific situations where knowing ace composition can make a slight difference, it is more instructive to simply simulate two approaches: one with ace side counts and one without. When you do that, you see that the results are so close as to make the extra worth simply not worth it to most players.

> Many books mention the use of them especially for
> betting purposes, so why dispose of the option?

If you play an ace-neutral count, you very much need an ace side count for betting purposes. If you already count the ace in your primary count (ace-reckoned, like Hi-Lo), keeping a side of aces for betting makes no sense; you're already counting the ace in your primary count!

> If I
> set the sims up properly using CVData, I came up with
> a SCORE of 49.32 w/ASC vs 46.20 w/o ASC.
> (6d,DAS,LS,S17) Although it seems
> like a small amount the N0 is a lower 20,276 vs
> 21,647.

For which count??

> When I first started I used the Ace side count, but
> dropped it to improve my counting abilities first.
> Lately I occasionally count the aces to see how the
> shoe's running but do not alter my betting strategy.
> During the past 2 weekends I had a few shoes where a
> high number of aces at the beginning of the shoe
> (6-10 in the 1st D) provided few BJ's but resulted in
> very high positive counts when I backed the Ace count
> out of the equation. After reviewing my play yesterday
> I thought about some logical reason why I shouldn't
> keep the ASC, and still can not find one. I believe
> even Revere gives four reasons to keep ASC.

See above. For Hi-Lo, I don't think it's possible to get the kind of discrepancy that you got, above. I think you may have done something wrong. Hell, if I could win 6.75% more with a side of aces in a shoe game, I might consider doing it myself! Something is wrong.

> Don, I read somewhere that you use RPC also.

Yes, I do. So, if you're saying "also," then does that mean that you use the RPC?

> What is
> your opinion on the use of ASC for betting purposes?

I'd say that it is utterly useless, since you already are counting the ace in the primary count. You're doing something wrong. The RPC has nearly a 100% betting efficiency, using just the primary count. Keeping a side of aces for playing decisions is one thing (and is fairly useless for a shoe game); keeping it for betting, when you already count the ace, makes no sense to me.

Don

[BJC]

If I am setting the sims up properly using CVData, I came up with a SCORE of 49.32 w/ASC vs 46.20 w/o ASC.
(6d,DAS,LS,S17) Although it seems
like a small amount the N0 is a lower 20,276 vs
21,647.

> For which count??

I use RPC with surrender indexes and insurance at +3.

I have been using CVData for just a few weeks so perhaps I just set it up incorrectly. Going back to check what I had configured, I inadvertently used the sample multi parameter tables as the SC strategy.

> See above. For Hi-Lo, I don't think it's possible to
> get the kind of discrepancy that you got, above. I
> think you may have done something wrong. Hell, if I
> could win 6.75% more with a side of aces in a shoe
> game, I might consider doing it myself! Something is
> wrong.

> Yes, I do. So, if you're saying "also," then
> does that mean that you use the RPC?

Yes

> I'd say that it is utterly useless, since you already
> are counting the ace in the primary count. You're
> doing something wrong. The RPC has nearly a 100%
> betting efficiency, using just the primary count.
> Keeping a side of aces for playing decisions is one
> thing (and is fairly useless for a shoe game); keeping
> it for betting , when you already count the ace,
> makes no sense to me.

> Don

It seems to be unanimous when it comes to ASC in shoe games. I'll have to keep working on my ST & sequencing abilities to move the slugs into my corner.

Thanks again for your help

BJC

[BJC]