Wolverine: 1 hour in a local casino

[Wolverine]

Well, what a boring life will lead you to do! I took my sweetie and we headed out to the local Indian Casino for an hour. What fun!

Okay, I had to play a 6D, 4.5/6 pen, H17, DA2, DAS, SPA1 shoe game with table limits of $15-$250.

My game plan going in: hit and run. Play $15 or leave if the count went negative, $20 at 0 to +1, and $30+ in positive counts. I was going to play for no more than an hour, and I brought $900 to the casino for the session.

I bought in for $200 and played just as described. The dealer pulled a dozen blackjacks to my 2 in that first shoe. However, I was up nearly $75 thanks to great cards and good doubles when the dealer didn't have the natural. I was heads up most of that shoe, but late in the shoe (with a positive count of course) a lady sat down and started playing. She actually got up 2 to 3x her starting chip stake but managed to lose most of it back on a couple of bad double down cards. Oh yeah, she split tens and won, with a TC in the +1 range, yet got a 10 and a 9 on them. She left, either tapped out or close to it.

New shoe, back to one-on-one. It was MY turn to get the blackjacks, and just as the shoe got positive, another interloper came in. She had been losing at another table, and sat at 3rd base. She too was a ten splitter! Darn it! The cards kept coming my way, and I managed to get up to about $500 in my chip rack (buyin of $200 remember). The ten splitter then moved to my immediate right so she could STEAL MY CARDS! Talk about desperate! Well, she couldn't hang in there as I kept right on getting the cards and she wasn't. A couple more players moved in after she left and I managed to get just over $650 in the rack. When I lost back to $600 and more ten splitting (again, TC never got above +3), I decided to cash in with a nice 1/2 hour, $400 profit betting between $15 and $40.

What did I do the last half hour? Listened to Elvis croon for the ladies and drank a beer. When I walked by the table not 10 minutes after I left, there was nobody playing it. Seems the dealer cleaned them all out.

Is it any wonder that I stay out of my local casinos and play BJ in Vegas? With these conditions, who could stand to play????

[Robert]

> Okay, I had to play a 6D, 4.5/6 pen, H17,
> DA2, DAS, SPA1 shoe game with table limits
> of $15-$250.

Please don't take offense to the following. In the Midwest, I play a 6D, 4.25to4.75/6 pen, S17, DAS game 2 to 3 times per month. Backcounting, this game is profitable. Admittedly, the rules you described are worse.

> My game plan going in: hit and run. Play $15
> or leave if the count went negative, $20 at
> 0 to +1, and $30+ in positive counts. I was
> going to play for no more than an hour, and
> I brought $900 to the casino for the
> session.

I used to play in a very similar way several years ago. But, if you were willing to bring $900 for a hit and run session, I have to assume your total BJ bankroll is at least $4000. If this is true, your bet ramp plan was not a great one. If you have BJA3, and if you don't you should have it, the sims in Chapter 10 indicate that you should bet quite a bit more, Play All or Bankcounted. Play All in that game is not a very good plan, unless you were restricted by the number of tables open, or if, for some other reason, you could not backcount, or didn't want to because of the girl with you.

> New shoe, back to one-on-one. It was MY turn
> to get the blackjacks, and just as the shoe
> got positive, another interloper came in.
> She had been losing at another table, and
> sat at 3rd base. She too was a ten splitter!
> Darn it! The cards kept coming my way, and I
> managed to get up to about $500 in my chip
> rack (buyin of $200 remember). The ten
> splitter then moved to my immediate right so
> she could STEAL MY CARDS! Talk about
> desperate!

Ten splitters like this player and the other one that you described should not worry you one bit. If the way others play their cards is bothering you, again, read a good BJ book or 2, to save your mind. Also, 1 other player at the table is actually the best situation for a backcounter....ten splitter or not. If all 25 6deck tables on the boat near me had just one player, I would be ecstatic, even if they split tens every time.

> I decided to cash in with a nice
> 1/2 hour, $400 profit betting between $15
> and $40.

That was doing very well for the session...you should have been pleased.

> Is it any wonder that I stay out of my local
> casinos and play BJ in Vegas? With these
> conditions, who could stand to play????

OK....You didn't say how long it took you to get to Vegas, and how much it costs you to get there. It costs me about $300 to $400 to get to (and stay in) Vegas. At a $20 to $25 per hour win rate, I need to play a lot of hours to get back those fixed expenses....with your bet ramp, you will too. A local place, played properly, can be a very good way to go. My local place has paid for all of my Vegas trips in the last 6 years. If on the other hand, I could get to and stay in Vegas for $50 to $100, that would be a different story. As it is, I make it to Sin City about every 9 months or so.

Again, if you don't have BJA3, I suggest that you get it.

Good Cards

[Wolverine]

Robert,
Thanks for the info. Maybe I should have prefaced my comments with my normal playing style: DD, S17, DAS, 60%+ penetration, $100 to $600 spread.

I get to Vegas every few weeks, hence my lack of play in my own backyard. And I was unwilling to spread any money on the table since there were people moving in and out all the time. Their splitting 10s was not a big deal, just pointing out what was happening at the table. Heck, if I get crazy, I know I've got GREAT cover to split 10's with a TC that warrants the split vs the 5 and 6. Don S would be envious that such a store exists and it won't draw heat! I also didn't want to get caught moving my bet up or down big time since I don't know what their policies were regarding counters. The last thing I need is to wind up in Griffin or something similar because I wanted some entertainment. I've got some REAL money to make in Vegas in the form of black chips!

I intended to Wong, but the tables were all full except this one. And yes, I was very happy with my good cards. But with a max TC of +3 over three shoes, it reminds me why I don't play shoe games. I get to a +3 level often in DD.

Thanks for your reply. I own BJA3, and many other books, I have CVBJ and all the other modules to go with it. I just refuse to play such lousy rules on a regular basis. I'm sure I'll go back again some time in 2006 when another person wants me to go with them. I honestly was looking at it as entertainment ($200 worth) and got lucky. It beat the heck out of practicing at the kitchen table as usual. Nothing like winning $5,000 in your own house--who's going to pay you off?

Good cards to you too.

[Robert]

> Robert,
> Thanks for the info. Maybe I should have
> prefaced my comments with my normal playing
> style: DD, S17, DAS, 60%+ penetration, $100
> to $600 spread.

> I get to Vegas every few weeks, hence my
> lack of play in my own backyard. And I was
> unwilling to spread any money on the table
> since there were people moving in and out
> all the time. Their splitting 10s was not a
> big deal, just pointing out what was
> happening at the table. Heck, if I get
> crazy, I know I've got GREAT cover to split
> 10's with a TC that warrants the split vs
> the 5 and 6. Don S would be envious that
> such a store exists and it won't draw heat!
> I also didn't want to get caught moving my
> bet up or down big time since I don't know
> what their policies were regarding counters.
> The last thing I need is to wind up in
> Griffin or something similar because I
> wanted some entertainment. I've got some
> REAL money to make in Vegas in the form of
> black chips!

OK, I hope I didn't insult you then, I'm new here. I played 70+% pen DD games you described in LV for about 20 total hours in mid February, albeit for lower $100 max bets. The CBJN info was very accurate for the downtown casinos and for a couple places out on Rampart. I never ventured elsewhere in 2.5 days. But the kind of stakes you are talking about would draw strong attention in those deeply dealt games IMHO. Where do you typically play $100-600... on the strip?

Also, I though about the splitting tens comment a little more; I guess that is a play that would actually hurt you somewhat, since a player is eating up a finite number of 10s more than they should be. It certainly wouldn't help you.

Good Luck

[Wolverine]

No harm, I just didn't communicate my normal play style very well. I play the black chips on the strip. Nothing like people betting purple to make a black chipper look cheap!

I've been playing BJ for many years and have never run into THREE consecutive table hoppers ALL split tens--and not even vs a 5/6 up! If they were Wonging, and the count justified it, they never would have gotten a mention in my initial post. More power to the advantage player! However, I mentioned it because it was a bad play based upon the count, but will act as excellent cover for me if I ever set foot in the casino again. I'll make a note of the fact that I can split 10's here and not look out of place.

I looked at the quick trip in as a scouting trip to see how the conditions were. My conclusion: I'm not missing anything here. I'll check back much, much later and save my bankroll for some serious play in LV. It was also a chance for me to work on my "act" as I begin to move around to other casinos in LV. I've been doing more of that lately, but my act revolves too much around people knowing who I am. I need to come up with an alternative story--and I was working on that too. They thought I was a rank beginner when I got done playing. Best cover for a card counter may be losing, but the next best is being perceived as a "new" player that isn't sure how to play his/her cards. They'll never suspect you of counting in the pit---the EYE becomes your main challenge to making money at that point.

And yes Robert, the alternative locations with deep DD penetration are a trap for action like mine. I always scale back to greens and more than likely high reds ($20-$50) when I play at those places. Plus, no more than an hour, more like a half hour if I'm up. I'll have to calculate my RoR of a $20 unit with a bankroll designed for $100-$600 play...that'll be fun! I'm guessing that it will be pretty small!

[John Lewis]

"I just didn't communicate my normal play style very well. I play the black chips on the strip ["DD, S17, DAS, 60%+ penetration, $100 to $600 spread"]. Nothing like people betting purple to make a black chipper look cheap!"

"I get to Vegas every few weeks."

Wolverine

I use CBJN. Yet I am very interested to hear your personal estimate of how many casinos on The Strip offer your game, as specified above.

Thanks,

JL

[Don Schlesinger]

> I use CBJN. Yet I am very interested to hear
> your personal estimate of how many casinos
> on The Strip offer your game, as specified
> above.

At least a dozen, and most also have rsa.

Don

[Wolverine]

If a casino offers DD with high limits, it does tend to have nice rules. Some will have H17 instead, but I try to avoid those stores, unless they give me another rule back in return. The tradeoff is usually in penetration. I do quite well with the "paltry" 60% MGM-Mirage typical penetration provided by their cut card slot, rather than the dealer provided 70%+ that most people look for. I've found that casinos with good penetration get pretty counter paranoid. (Any casino with the word COAST in their name.) Since I am a serious recreational player and don't make my living at BJ, I allow myself to look more like a high rolling gambler than most pros would be comfortable with. If I get good comps (RFB) to nice Strip hotels, and break even or even make money, then I feel like I've done my job. If I had to make a living at it, I wouldn't do it.

Hope that helps answer your question John. If not, just fire another at me and I'll try to answer.