Hollywood: OK, hear is the deal with some questions?

[Hollywood]

I just got barred again, and it was not fun.

Now that being said, it was one of the last hotels that allowed me to play in my own name.

So my playing days have been reduced to me playing under other names.
I tried not giving names at all, just saying "thanks, thats ok, but i'm not staying that long" and many other things like that.

However, they seem to look at it negativly when you don't give them info, especially at higher stakes tables.

So, that being said.
What are the LEGAL ramifications of playing under other names and and giving them bullshit ID's to get playing cards?

I know from my own business, there is no law against being anonimous (your using another name) if you are not doing it to defraud anyone.

But, in order to get a card you need to give them ID in another name.

Is there a problem with having a phoney ID in your possession?

This heat stuff is getting a bit out of hand, expecially considering how small the edge is.

I realize now, that they don't need to bust you counting. They need only suspect you of it.

No matter how good your camo is, if a person rewinds tapes and studies them then you're done.

So that being said, I must reinvent myself.

ANY SUGGESTIONS?

Thanks,

Hollywood

[Don Schlesinger]

May I ask where you were playing?

Maybe the best will be to avoid that area for a while and to refuse ID when you're asked, at least for now.

Don

[Bettie]

> So, that being said.
> What are the LEGAL ramifications of playing
> under other names and and giving them
> bullshit ID's to get playing cards?

> Is there a problem with having a phoney ID
> in your possession?

There's some info on this in Blackjack and the Law, and you might try looking through some of the stuff in our privacy collection. I know most of them cover the legalities of creating a new identity.

Is Bob Loeb around to help answer?

Bettie

[Night Train]

> Is there a problem with having a phoney ID
> in your possession?

If you have a forged "Government" ID, it's a crime.

> So that being said, I must reinvent myself.

> ANY SUGGESTIONS?

Everyone is ID crazy nowadays. Not just ID, but they most specifically ask for a "drivers license" or "passport." Rather than taking the risk of getting snagged with a fake ID, use your lifeline and phone a friend. A non-playing or low-limit playing friend, who you can bring to the casino to get a players card. The card is under your friends name (who used valid ID to get it) and you use it to play. Just be careful when approaching $10k in buy-ins. Your friend, if willing to run with this, gets the benefit of sharing in the comps you earn.

Hope this helps.

Regards,
Rick

[BobL]

For starters, there are 2 basic truths in this area: 1) It is illegal to possess or use official government issued IDs (or IDs that purport or seem to be official government issued IDs) with a false name. 2) It is illegal to have or use other types of IDs for fraudulent purposes.

Next, NightTrain's comments are right on point, so consider his advice very seriously.

This takes us to the more difficult area, which is, What is a fraudulent use? The answer is rather subjective, in the eye of the beholder, particularly in our paranoid, post 9/11 atmosphere. By way of example, I personally don't believe that use of an alias, by someone who is in Griffin, to obtain a dinner comp is fraudulent. But casinos may feel otherwise, and I cannot tell you that there is any statute or case law that says that particular use is or is not fraudulent. Casinos and law enforcement will presume that use of an alias and phony IDs are fraudulent. Even if technically legal, might still be arrested and go through a lot of hassles.

Different kinds of players, by necessity, have different answers and approaches in this area. I recommend that whenever possible, avoid the use of a fake ID. A sporadic, recreational player shouldn't need fake IDs. On the other hand, a full-time, professional player may not be able to play without multiple identities, and the risks may outweigh the benefits for him.

If you can no longer play anywhere under your given name, and it is that important to continue to play, you should probably consider a legal change of name in your home state, and getting all new IDs to reflect that name. Assuming that it is not to avoid law enforcement, warrants, judgments or creditors, it is legal to do so. I hope that helps.

[TwuntyWun]

Bob,

(new subscriber here) Rather than legally changing one's name, what about registering an alias as a DBA? Could one then obtain *legal* government issued ID in the legal alias name? I imagine that each state might have different laws regarding this.

Thanks,

TW

[Hollywood]

> May I ask where you were playing?

> Maybe the best will be to avoid that area
> for a while and to refuse ID when you're
> asked, at least for now.

> Don

Unfortunately Don, I was in AC. Which is only where I play. It's just to damn convenient.

Hollywood

[Hollywood]

> If you have a forged "Government"
> ID, it's a crime.

> Everyone is ID crazy nowadays. Not just ID,
> but they most specifically ask for a
> "drivers license" or
> "passport." Rather than taking the
> risk of getting snagged with a fake ID, use
> your lifeline and phone a friend. A
> non-playing or low-limit playing friend, who
> you can bring to the casino to get a players
> card. The card is under your friends name
> (who used valid ID to get it) and you use it
> to play. Just be careful when approaching
> $10k in buy-ins. Your friend, if willing to
> run with this, gets the benefit of sharing
> in the comps you earn.

> Hope this helps.

> Regards,
> Rick

Because I would like to know what an AC casino can do to you legally for playing with a players card that is not YOU.

Let's create a senario:

I walk into a casino with fake ID only so I can get a players card in that name. Now, I also make certain that I have a self addressed envelope in my possession so that as soon as I get the card I place my fake ID in the envelope and mail it back to myself. This, so i'm not walking around with it.
Then I go and play. When they ask me for my players card, naturally I give them the one I just received. After playing for an hour, they realize who I really am.

DO I HAVE A PROBLEM FOR SAYING I WAS SOMEBODY ELSE?

Also, getting back to what the other post said, If I go and play with the ID of a friend. And in the middle of playing they bust who I really am, is that a problem for me?

And more important, can it create a problem for my friend?

Thanks,

Hollywood

[Grosjean's Disciple]

Many casinos, particularly the very large ones, usually scan IDs before issuing a player's card. Using another person's player's card isn't always an option when especially when playing large stakes.

[Norm Wattenberger]

I have a DBA and a bankcard in that name and I often get credit card solicitations in the name of the DBA. But, you cannot legally get a passport or license in that name. And, I failed trying to get a player's card based on a credit card.

I did get my first passport with no id at all. But, doing that for purposes of fraud would be a serious crime.

> Bob,

> (new subscriber here) Rather than legally
> changing one's name, what about registering
> an alias as a DBA? Could one then obtain
> *legal* government issued ID in the legal
> alias name? I imagine that each state might
> have different laws regarding this.

> Thanks,

> TW

[Don Schlesinger]

> Unfortunately Don, I was in AC. Which is
> only where I play. It's just too damn
> convenient.

I think you're being stubborn. You've been identified in A.C., and they're going to make your life miserable there. Plus, the games stink. It's time to move on.

Don

[Radar]

use
> your lifeline and phone a friend. A
> non-playing or low-limit playing friend, who
> you can bring to the casino to get a players
> card. The card is under your friends name
> (who used valid ID to get it) and you use it
> to play.

If you get him barred, he may not be a friend much longer...

How about this. I have often thought about it but have never seen it on a site. What about going around the casino and find some card (still in a slot) or laying around and take and use that one? Is there a law against using someone else's card?

Obviously, make sure the name fits your gender.

I would think the poor sole would like knowing that he rang up a bunch of comps at your expense. hehe

[Hollywood]

> I think you're being stubborn. You've been
> identified in A.C., and they're going to
> make your life miserable there. Plus, the
> games stink. It's time to move on.

> Don

GOD YOU ARE SO RIGHT