Chachie: Mistake I have learned from

[Chachie]

I am a 21 year old who has been counting for a short time now. My local casino is very very crowded and there is one lesson I learned the hard way. I was sitting at 3rd base with 2 other players sitting at the table, TC of + 2. It is towards the end of the shoe and two more players join to make it a full table. I look around and see that all the tables aroung me are completely filled up so I stay. Next hand comes out and it looks like every remaining low card in the shoe came out in that round. TC shoots up to +10. I push out my 12 unit max bet wishing I could spread to 2 hands of 8 but every spot is occupied. Next round three players next to me get Black Jacks I get a 9 and a 4 against dealers 10. I hit and get a queen, bust, dealer flips over a picture for a total of 20. I finish out the shoe losing 3 more max bets. After that I vow to wong out when there are more than 3 others at the table no matter how good the count is. I could not help thinking how bad it looks when you tripple your bet and three blackjacks pop up that round. If that does not tip you off as a counter I don't know what will.
By the way, Don S., I recently read "Blackjack Attack" and it is the greatest book on Blackjack I have ever read. You are a God

[HOLLYWOOD]

> I am a 21 year old who has been counting for
> a short time now. My local casino is very
> very crowded and there is one lesson I
> learned the hard way. I was sitting at 3rd
> base with 2 other players sitting at the
> table, TC of + 2. It is towards the end of
> the shoe and two more players join to make
> it a full table. I look around and see that
> all the tables aroung me are completely
> filled up so I stay. Next hand comes out and
> it looks like every remaining low card in
> the shoe came out in that round. TC shoots
> up to +10. I push out my 12 unit max bet
> wishing I could spread to 2 hands of 8 but
> every spot is occupied. Next round three
> players next to me get Black Jacks I get a 9
> and a 4 against dealers 10. I hit and get a
> queen, bust, dealer flips over a picture for
> a total of 20. I finish out the shoe losing
> 3 more max bets. After that I vow to wong
> out when there are more than 3 others at the
> table no matter how good the count is. I
> could not help thinking how bad it looks
> when you tripple your bet and three
> blackjacks pop up that round. If that does
> not tip you off as a counter I don't know
> what will.
> By the way, Don S., I recently read
> "Blackjack Attack" and it is the
> greatest book on Blackjack I have ever read.
> You are a God

WOW, and I thought the conditions were bad in AC. You just made me feel fortunate.

If it means anything to you, I would not have gotten up either. I live for high counts, and even with more people sitting down I would have stayed.

However, I would not have increased my bet that drastically. I only increase my bet incresaing the chips that are already out there. Or if I could jump to 2 hands and say something like,

"i'm gonna try and play two to try and change this"

BJ ATTACK will tell you not to send it in just because the count jumps. If you had won those 3 hands at max bets, you may not have been invited back, then what would you have accomplished.

Unfortunately, counting has a prices. And that's one of them.

Good luck

Hollywood

[Contrail]

Maybe you are referring to a significant bet increase that may have made your play discernable, but that doesn't have anything to do with the number of players and you could have selected to not jump from your +2 bet to your +10 bet over 1 round.

You indicated that you had already scanned the room and there was no were else to go and even though you're near the end of the shoe you do have at +2 count. As it was you got 4 max. bets down.

So I can understand if you choose to not jump your bet so much over a round for cover, but the decision to wong-out of a shoe game when there are more than 3 players irrespective of the count is an over reaction imo.

I think you did good.

> I am a 21 year old who has been counting for
> a short time now. My local casino is very
> very crowded and there is one lesson I
> learned the hard way. I was sitting at 3rd
> base with 2 other players sitting at the
> table, TC of + 2. It is towards the end of
> the shoe and two more players join to make
> it a full table. I look around and see that
> all the tables aroung me are completely
> filled up so I stay. Next hand comes out and
> it looks like every remaining low card in
> the shoe came out in that round. TC shoots
> up to +10. I push out my 12 unit max bet
> wishing I could spread to 2 hands of 8 but
> every spot is occupied. Next round three
> players next to me get Black Jacks I get a 9
> and a 4 against dealers 10. I hit and get a
> queen, bust, dealer flips over a picture for
> a total of 20. I finish out the shoe losing
> 3 more max bets. After that I vow to wong
> out when there are more than 3 others at the
> table no matter how good the count is. I
> could not help thinking how bad it looks
> when you tripple your bet and three
> blackjacks pop up that round. If that does
> not tip you off as a counter I don't know
> what will.
> By the way, Don S., I recently read
> "Blackjack Attack" and it is the
> greatest book on Blackjack I have ever read.
> You are a God

[Chachie]

Thanks for the response. The mistake I thought I made was staying when the table filled up. No doubt about it though the signifigant bet increase was a mistake too. You say I did the right thing by staying but I have to disagree. I have had a lot more success since implementing my rule of Wonging out when there are more than 3 other players. I also leave a table when I can not spread to 2 hands. It makes sense to me to be conservative and only play when the conditions are most in my favor. I would rather sit out and take a breather waiting for better conditions to present themself. I am just a rookie. I joined this message board to get the opinions of people with a lot more experience than me so please let me know if you think I am doing something wrong.

> Maybe you are referring to a significant bet
> increase that may have made your play
> discernable, but that doesn't have anything
> to do with the number of players and you
> could have selected to not jump from your +2
> bet to your +10 bet over 1 round.

> You indicated that you had already scanned
> the room and there was no were else to go
> and even though you're near the end of the
> shoe you do have at +2 count. As it was you
> got 4 max. bets down.

> So I can understand if you choose to not
> jump your bet so much over a round for
> cover, but the decision to wong-out of a
> shoe game when there are more than 3 players
> irrespective of the count is an over
> reaction imo.

> I think you did good.

[Night Train]

> TC shoots up to +10. I push out my 12 unit max > bet wishing I could spread to 2 hands of 8 but
> every spot is occupied.

If the player next to you isn't betting table max, you could always take a shot ask if you can "go partners" and add a few chips on his/her spot.

> Next round three players next to me get Black
> Jacks I get a 9 and a 4 against dealers 10. I
> hit and get a queen, bust, dealer flips over a > picture for a total of 20. I finish out the
> shoe losing 3 more max bets.

This happens to the best of em. Gotta roll with it.

> After that I vow to wong out when there are
> more than 3 others at the table no matter how
> good the count is.

Stay there. You put in the time counting down the shoe. Don't deprive yourself the "shot" at the money cards you've been working for.

> I could not help thinking how bad it looks when > you tripple your bet and three blackjacks pop
> up that round. If that does not tip you off as > a counter I don't know what will.

Don't be too quick to think like that. First consider the stakes you were playing, in relation to the other action at your table and other tables. Second, you indicated the joint was packed, which means unless you were betting higher than most, they probably had more important things to attend to. Third, consider your history at the casino. Have you hit them for big wins? Is there anything from a previous visit which you think may have raised a "red flag?"

> By the way, Don S., I recently read "Blackjack > Attack" and it is the greatest book on
> Blackjack I have ever read. You are a God

BJ Attack is a super book and Don is a super guy as well. He'll even correct your spelling ;-))

Seriously, it doesn't sound as if you made any mistake. Hang in there and you'll eventually see the results.

Regards,
Rick

[Chachie]

> Thanks for your response Night Train. I'm going to read "Black Jack in the Zone" next. My Spelling is horrible. I'm glad you don't need to be a good speller to be a good Blackjack player. Why don't you guy's add a spell checker to the post window? They have one over at BJ21 Greenchip.

If the player next to you isn't betting
> table max, you could always take a shot ask
> if you can "go partners" and add a
> few chips on his/her spot.

> This happens to the best of em. Gotta roll
> with it.

> Stay there. You put in the time counting
> down the shoe. Don't deprive yourself the
> "shot" at the money cards you've
> been working for.

> Don't be too quick to think like that. First
> consider the stakes you were playing, in
> relation to the other action at your table
> and other tables. Second, you indicated the
> joint was packed, which means unless you
> were betting higher than most, they probably
> had more important things to attend to.
> Third, consider your history at the casino.
> Have you hit them for big wins? Is there
> anything from a previous visit which you
> think may have raised a "red
> flag?"

> BJ Attack is a super book and Don is a super
> guy as well. He'll even correct your
> spelling ;-))

> Seriously, it doesn't sound as if you made
> any mistake. Hang in there and you'll
> eventually see the results.

> Regards,
> Rick

[Brick]

I have a good count going. It is foolish to do so. I think you somehow feel you were robbed of a blackjack by the ploppies who entered. This is no different than the ploppies who blame someone else for their loses by taking the dealers bust card,sitting out a hand,etc. If I seen two players walk up to the table, I would have bet 2 hands before they had a chance to get in.

If there were you and 2 other players at the table and two others joined, this would still leave 2 open spots. Why not play 2 hands anyway?

> Thanks for the response. The mistake I
> thought I made was staying when the table
> filled up. No doubt about it though the
> signifigant bet increase was a mistake too.
> You say I did the right thing by staying but
> I have to disagree. I have had a lot more
> success since implementing my rule of
> Wonging out when there are more than 3 other
> players. I also leave a table when I can not
> spread to 2 hands. It makes sense to me to
> be conservative and only play when the
> conditions are most in my favor. I would
> rather sit out and take a breather waiting
> for better conditions to present themself. I
> am just a rookie. I joined this message
> board to get the opinions of people with a
> lot more experience than me so please let me
> know if you think I am doing something
> wrong.

[Minnesota Fats]

"Why don't you guy's add a spell checker to the post window?"

They don't have to. They have Don :^).

Regards,
MF

[Don Schlesinger]

> By the way, Don S., I recently read
> "Blackjack Attack" and it is the
> greatest book on Blackjack I have ever read.
> You are a God

Glad you enjoyed. Thanks for the kind words.

Don

[Rhetorich]

> I was sitting at 3rd
> base with 2 other players sitting at the
> table, TC of + 2. It is towards the end of
> the shoe and two more players join to make
> it a full table. I look around and see that
> all the tables aroung me are completely
> filled up so I stay. Next hand comes out and
> it looks like every remaining low card in
> the shoe came out in that round. TC shoots
> up to +10. I push out my 12 unit max bet
> wishing I could spread to 2 hands of 8 but
> every spot is occupied.

If the box next to you is open before the others sit down, you can always say (politely), "I'm sorry, I'm playing two hands ..." and before you even suggest it, the guy will move his chips & himself to another available spot. If the dealer, the new player, or one of the original players say *anything* like, "You weren't playing two hands before," you can say "I'm feeling lucky." I've never had a new player refuse to give up the spot.... you were there first.

You might be thinking, "Well, I didn't know the count was going to skyrocket." But spreading to two hands costs next to nothing, and (near the end of the shoes especially) preserving the 2nd spot with a small bet positions you to play both with large wagers.

Also, it looks far less suspicious to place two large bets if you've been playing the two spots before, rather than spreading to 2 hands from one.

"Chance favors the prepared mind." -Pasteur

"A bird in the hand can be messy." -James Audubon

My $.02