BlackJackHack: Advice Sought on Comps and Player Cards

[BlackJackHack]

I'm seeking advice on how to best approach the question of player cards and comps. Forgive me if this has been addressed before.

For obvious reasons, I don't want ANY casinos to have my real name, or be able to keep accurate records of when I have played, and how much I am winning. Additionally, since I'm making about $150/hour playing BJ, I really couldn't care less about being comped for a $59 hotel room or a $12 buffet (and, frankly, I'm puzzled when supposed card counters ask questions on these boards about how and where to get comped).

On the other hand, NOT using a player's card appears to arouse at least some suspicion.

I basically see three options:
(1) tell them I do not have, and am not interested in, a player's card
(2) get player's cards with fake names/addresses; retire the "identity" if it wins too much money; keep using the "identity" if it is a loser
(3) get player's cards with my real name

Until recently, I used option (1), but it seemed to arouse a lot of interest from the pit staff -- even fairly explicit questions about where I'm staying, playing, etc. It probably is rare for a green chip player (I usually ramp $25-125 on SD, and $25-200 on DD) to display no interest in comps. I have started shifting towards option (2), which probably provides better cover. Any thoughts?

[MathProf]

First, I wonder how you arrived at the figure of $150 an hour, spreading 25-200 in DD and 25-125 in SD. Are these sim results, or actual play results? I do not know many double deck games for which a 1-8 spread can yield 6 units per hour, nor SD games where you can get that from a 1-5 spread.

But even accepting this, let us look at the numbers. Suppose you do make 150 an hour, and let us say you can find 8 hours of play under these conditions. This is $1200 a day. Your $59 plus $12 buffet, plus lunch and breakfast may come to 80 a day. This is costing you about 7% of your EV, or 13% of your SCORE. Frankly, I am puzzled that any counter could "Care less" about 13% increase in SCORE.

However, I think your EV figures are overstated. I think $500 a day of EV is more realistic. If so, then these expenses are taking 16% of your EV, or about 30% of your SCORE. For most of us, this is unacceptably high.

There is one other important to comps: the line pass. Most casinos have a comp line for the restaurants, and for the hotel check-in/check-out. This saves a lot of waiting time. And when you are on gambling trip, Time in Money.

However, having said all that, there is still a good argument for preserving anonymity. There are players who give up all of that, if t would protect their privacy. Unfortunately, as you very clearly point out, this is often not an option. Declining to be rating raises more suspicions.

Now there is another aspect of comps that you should be aware of: the mailing list. Casinos love to send out room offers through the mail. Once you get on mailing lists, these offers will pour in. You can get free rooms, and sometimes food, and sometimes cashback, just by taking the coupon into the casino. You don't worry about playing for the comps, or even talking to a host.

I say this because you talked about giving fake addresses. It is important that mail can reach you at whatever address you supply. Otherwise, you will miss out on these opportunities.

> For obvious reasons, I don't want ANY
> casinos to have my real name, or be able to
> keep accurate records of when I have played,
> and how much I am winning. Additionally,
> since I'm making about $150/hour playing BJ,
> I really couldn't care less about being
> comped for a $59 hotel room or a $12 buffet
> (and, frankly, I'm puzzled when supposed
> card counters ask questions on these boards
> about how and where to get comped).

> On the other hand, NOT using a player's
> card appears to arouse at least some
> suspicion.

> I basically see three options:
> (1) tell them I do not have, and am not
> interested in, a player's card
> (2) get player's cards with fake
> names/addresses; retire the
> "identity" if it wins too much
> money; keep using the "identity"
> if it is a loser
> (3) get player's cards with my real name

> Until recently, I used option (1), but it
> seemed to arouse a lot of interest from the
> pit staff -- even fairly explicit questions
> about where I'm staying, playing, etc. It
> probably is rare for a green chip player (I
> usually ramp $25-125 on SD, and $25-200 on
> DD) to display no interest in comps. I have
> started shifting towards option (2), which
> probably provides better cover. Any
> thoughts?

[Don Schlesinger]

I'd go for option 2, if you can swing it. Refusing comps and cards is, indeed, a red flag. I don't suggest it, as a regular practice.

I certainly don't suggest giving your real name.

So, that leaves number 2!

Don

[Don Schlesinger]

Excellent post! Very thorough, and I agree with eveything you've written, with one exception:

> I do not know many
> double deck games for which a 1-8 spread can
> yield 6 units per hour, nor SD games where
> you can get that from a 1-5 spread.

I'd change "many," above, to "any"!! :-)

Don

Don

[BlackJackHack]

Thanks for the advice. I will generally pursue a strategy of using fake names on player cards -- if I can avail myself of the comps it's a plus, but if I can't, I will at least deflect some of the considerable heat I have been getting for not using a card.

BTW - these are actual play results, albeit from only about 140 hours of play (3 trips to LV and one to Biloxi), using the Uston APC with most of its (many) strategy deviations. I understand that this may not be a statistically significant sample, and that I may experience a "regression to the mean" over time.

I should note that I ramped more aggressively than 1:5 SD and 1:8 DD on my first two LV trips (I basically played like a machine, averaged $190/hr and got backed off 3 times), but I've been using the more conservative 1:5 and 1:8 since then (with a noticeable drop in my average).

Perhaps I should go back to the more aggressive ramp, and focus on creating my "cover" through means other than compromising my betting strategy? Based on advice received here previously, I have been working on my "act" (I have bought a new wardrobe more consistent with a cheesy ploppy, and I try to get emotional about my results), and have shortened my sessions (on my last trip, I cut my average session down to 1 hour - 31 sessions in 30.1 hrs). Perhaps, in addition to using (phony name) player cards, I should shorten my sessions even more?

[Don Schlesinger]

> I understand that this may not
> be a statistically significant sample, and
> that I may experience a "regression to
> the mean" over time.

In the above, change "may not" to "definitely is not" and "may experience" to "will experience"!

Don

[MathProf]

I wouldn't reject out of hand the idea of using the Real Name. There are many advantages to using your real name. Here are some:

1. You don't have to worry about CTRs (not a big problem for Green players), or VP jackpots (a potential problem)
2. If you qualify for airfare, you can present your ticket (most people fly in their real name, especially since Sept 11).
3. You don't have to worry about showing Fake ID, which could be illegal in some jurisdictions.
4. You can cash travelers checks and get cash advances, etc. where you are staying.

Playing under an alias only gives you limited privacy protection. If the casino gets mad and wants to know you are, they have a variety of techniques to discover your true identity. Some of these are blatantly illegal, but that doesn't stop them.

I am not actually advocating that people use their real name; I am saying it is something to be considered. It depends a little on your "career" plans. If you only plan to get in 1000 hours of Green play (10 years of 100 hours each), you can probably do this without recycling casinos, and using your real name makes a lot more sense. If you are planning to get in 20,000 hours of Black play (20 years of 1000 hours each) you will have to sue different names, and play under some aliases, at least some of the time.

> I'd go for option 2, if you can swing it.
> Refusing comps and cards is, indeed, a red
> flag. I don't suggest it, as a regular
> practice.

> I certainly don't suggest giving your real
> name.

> So, that leaves number 2!

> Don