Hollywood: How do you handle this?

[Hollywood]

Your at a table. The count finally gets to exactly where you want it. You build up to your maxium bet. (which for me is 10 units)
But, at your max bet you are litterally losing every hand.
What I would like to know from my fellow players is this.
Do you just hang in there and keep playing your max bet now, because you have a heavy count in your favor?
I have been finding that when the count is exceptionally in my favor.
I frequently win many hands in a row.
But, I just as frequently lose several hands in a row under those conditions.
I guess one of the things, im asking is how long do you hang in there because you have the count in your favor? I'm always curious about what other good players are doing.
I had an experience the other night which was rough. I don't get discourged because I know that it is within the world of SD.
But, I was playing along and I was actually up about 18 units. This was all from flat betting.
Finally, after only a few hands had been dealth in a new shoe (6 decks, with only one deck cut off, so pen was great) I go to an exceptional count early. So I increase my bet to 2 units, I win I go to 4 units I win and go to 8 and I win and go to 10 units (which is my max bet)and the count is still on fire.
So I am now at my maximum bet, and I never win another hand. I'm playing head to head and dropped 17 maximum bet hands in a row all at an exceptionally high count. It happens, and I understand that. But, i'm always more concerned if I did things right more then what the win loss ratio is.
SO MY QUESTION IS ROOM, WOULD YOU HAVE DONE IT THE SAME WAY?
As always, I would appreciate everyones feedback.

Regards,

Hollywood

[Don Schlesinger]

>Your at a table.

Already, I don't handle it well. How about "you're" at a table?!! :-)

> The count finally gets to
> exactly where you want it. You build up to
> your maxium bet. (which for me is 10 units)
> But, at your max bet you are literally
> losing every hand.
> What I would like to know from my fellow
> players is this.
> Do you just hang in there and keep playing
> your max bet now, because you have a heavy
> count in your favor?

Yes. What is your alternative? Walk away? Cut back? In order to accomplish what? Find another table with another high count, which you already have in front of you? Makes no sense.

> I have been finding that when the count is
> exceptionally in my favor.
> I frequently win many hands in a row.
> But, I just as frequently lose several
> hands in a row under those conditions.

Probably exactly right. Should be about 50-50. But, you get to: double, split, receive 3 to 2 for naturals, stand on 12-16, and take insurance and surrender. The dealer doesn't. Advantage to the player! But, you're going to lose as many hands as you win.

> I guess one of the things, im asking is how
> long do you hang in there because you have
> the count in your favor?

Until it's no longer in your favor.

> I'm always curious
> about what other good players are doing.
> I had an experience the other night which
> was rough. I don't get discourged because I
> know that it is within the world of SD.
> But, I was playing along and I was actually
> up about 18 units. This was all from flat
> betting.
> Finally, after only a few hands had been
> dealth in a new shoe (6 decks, with only one
> deck cut off, so pen was great) I go to an
> exceptional count early. So I increase my
> bet to 2 units, I win I go to 4 units I win
> and go to 8 and I win and go to 10 units
> (which is my max bet)and the count is still
> on fire.
> So I am now at my maximum bet, and I never
> win another hand.

A real bitch, isn't it?

> I'm playing head to head
> and dropped 17 maximum bet hands in a row
> all at an exceptionally high count. It
> happens, and I understand that.

17 in a row doesn't happen all that often. Reputable place?

> But, i'm
> always more concerned if I did things right
> more then what the win loss ratio is.
> SO MY QUESTION IS ROOM, WOULD YOU HAVE DONE
> IT THE SAME WAY?

You're either in it for the high counts, or you're not in it at all.

Don

[Silks]

Take the l out of dealth and what do you get?
Which is what not playing into high counts will do to your bankroll in the LONG RUN. Anything can and will happen in the short run!

[MathProf]

First, I obviously agree with Don that you really have to keep putting out the big bets. These high counts are just what we live for.

But you do have to be careful of heat and cover considerations. If you are losing one big bet after another, you are almost certain to be noticed. If were no other reason, then because the floor has to keep writing down your buy-ins. If you are in a jurisdiction that allows money plays, you may just throw cash out in the circle. This will bring them over to watch, but it there are problems with this.

If you can project an image of a steamer who is out of control, you can do a great deal for yourself. Get set up with a host, who will think he has hooked alive sucker. Go to the steakhouse, and get upgraded rooms for your next visit.

But, you have to be careful about this. I have gotten some of my worst heat in these situations; in fact, it led to the nastiest barring of my career.

Why? Well Imagine a pit boss watching you play. It is clear that you know an approximate Basic Strategy. It is clear that you vary your bet. In fact, it may be clear that you are smart enough to raise your bet after the low cards have come out. Some shoes are obviously hot, even to non-counters. You may hear the civilians says "Look all these low cards. When are the big cards coming?"

Now so far there is not a big problem. The boss may think you are a tourist, who ahs learned a little bit about BJ. Maybe you can get an edge, but your not really a threat to the casino (I and assuming that your not betting purple.) But then you lose, and bet big. And then lose again . You bring out more cash (or get another marker), bet big, and then lose. Then bring out even more cash, bet big and lose again, etc.

Now a tourist doesn't do this. You are showing that you are well-financed, and disciplines. These are traits that separate the serious players from the civilians. You may even be part of a team. Now you are a real threat.

You have to keep putting these bets out, but I would suggest that you leave after the Shoe. Or at least quit playing. Let the computer show that you're a guy who blew his bankroll by a lot of big bets in a few minutes. As I say, maybe schmooze the host, set up a nice comp, but point that you just can't afford to lose any more money.

> Your at a table. The count finally gets to
> exactly where you want it. You build up to
> your maxium bet. (which for me is 10 units)
> But, at your max bet you are litterally
> losing every hand.
> What I would like to know from my fellow
> players is this.
> Do you just hang in there and keep playing
> your max bet now, because you have a heavy
> count in your favor?
> I have been finding that when the count is
> exceptionally in my favor.
> I frequently win many hands in a row.
> But, I just as frequently lose several
> hands in a row under those conditions.
> I guess one of the things, im asking is how
> long do you hang in there because you have
> the count in your favor? I'm always curious
> about what other good players are doing.
> I had an experience the other night which
> was rough. I don't get discourged because I
> know that it is within the world of SD.
> But, I was playing along and I was actually
> up about 18 units. This was all from flat
> betting.
> Finally, after only a few hands had been
> dealth in a new shoe (6 decks, with only one
> deck cut off, so pen was great) I go to an
> exceptional count early. So I increase my
> bet to 2 units, I win I go to 4 units I win
> and go to 8 and I win and go to 10 units
> (which is my max bet)and the count is still
> on fire.
> So I am now at my maximum bet, and I never
> win another hand. I'm playing head to head
> and dropped 17 maximum bet hands in a row
> all at an exceptionally high count. It
> happens, and I understand that. But, i'm
> always more concerned if I did things right
> more then what the win loss ratio is.
> SO MY QUESTION IS ROOM, WOULD YOU HAVE DONE
> IT THE SAME WAY?
> As always, I would appreciate everyones
> feedback.

[Ken Fuchs]

> betting purple.) But then you lose, and bet
> big. And then lose again . You bring out
> more cash (or get another marker), bet big,
> and then lose. Then bring out even more
> cash, bet big and lose again, etc.

> Now a tourist doesn't do this.

I've seen non-counters do this many times. The trick is to act like a steamer, as MathProf suggests. You don't have to go over-the-top with it either. Just show some negative emotion and don't look cold and calculating as you reach for more money or more chips.

Regards,
-Ken

[BlackJackHack]

As usual, Don is 100% correct.

NEVER leave a table with a high count. Also, carry enough cash to prepare yourself for the inevitable run of bad luck where you lose 5 or 6 max bets in a row.

Even though I'm still relatively inexperienced (about 200 hours of advantage play), I can't tell you how many times I have lost BIG, pulled more stacks of green out of my pocket, and then won it ALL back on a few good doubles or BJ's at the end of a positive shoe.

Also, if you've just put down several max bets in a row, it's a good idea to leave immediately on the next shuffle. I once overstayed my welcome in this situation and got backed off after my worst hour of play (-$2500) in my life!

[ET Fan]

Did you really lose 17 in a row, or were there some pushes, and win/lose splits in there?

After 8 or 9 losses in a row, I'm looking with some suspicion toward the dealer, but I'm still chucking it out there. After 14 or 15 losses, I'm looking at the cards, under the table, everything. I'd make a point of saying "law of averages proves you can't win another hand!" ;-)

At shuffle time, I'd tell everyone I'm tapped out. I'm never playing this %$#@! game again, etc. Sit at a slot machine and stare off into space for ten minutes, like my cat died or something, then trudge back and play some more.

"What are you doing back here?"

"(sigh) No discipline."

ETF

[Don Schlesinger]

Been there, done it all! :-)

Agree 100%.

Don

> Did you really lose 17 in a row, or were
> there some pushes, and win/lose splits in
> there?

> After 8 or 9 losses in a row, I'm looking
> with some suspicion toward the dealer, but
> I'm still chucking it out there. After 14 or
> 15 losses, I'm looking at the cards, under
> the table, everything . I'd make a point of
> saying "law of averages proves you
> can't win another hand!" ;-)

> At shuffle time, I'd tell everyone I'm
> tapped out. I'm never playing this %$#@!
> game again, etc. Sit at a slot machine and
> stare off into space for ten minutes, like
> my cat died or something, then trudge back
> and play some more.

> "What are you doing back here?"

> "(sigh) No discipline."

> ETF

[Hollywood]

> Been there, done it all! :-)

> Agree 100%.

> Don

In all fairness, when I said 17 in a row, I was counting doubles and splits as 2. I had 3 doubles and one split ( lost them all) in the sequence. And also I had one double on the split. But, I still counted the double on the split as 2 not 3. So if you want to get technical, it was 13 in a row which amounted to 180 units in about what seemed like a minute, but was probably closer to 3 minutes. Each double was a $2000.00 loss. The split was a $3000.00 loss.
I try to play without an opinion. No such thing as bad luck. Just strong math principals. A high high plus count, I hang in there. And let me tell you something, when i'm betting like that you can't blame me for starting to question what I believe. But, I hang in there and do what i'm supposed to do.
All i'm trying to find out, is if I did it the way I was supposed to. And basically Don said "yes". So I guess from everyones feedback if it came up the same way next time, I should do it exactly the same way. Bite my lip and put it out there. Like Don said, whats the alternative. Go to another table where I dont have the count. I'm a good listener, and I WILL ABSOLUTLY be back at the table tonight.
Just sharing my experiences and getting feedback.
It's like I read someplace BJ will test your soul.

Regards

Hollywood

[Kyle Sever]

It appears you are betting 1-10 black, correct? With all respect, Hollywood, do you feel that is an appropriate level of play? I have read many of your posts, and I will say that you are progressing, but I don't think you are ready for high stakes blackjack. You may want to lower your stakes, take your time, be patient, study the game, and then move back up. Good luck, and I wish I had the bankroll to bet that big.

[Hollywood]

> It appears you are betting 1-10 black,
> correct? With all respect, Hollywood, do you
> feel that is an appropriate level of play? I
> have read many of your posts, and I will say
> that you are progressing, but I don't think
> you are ready for high stakes blackjack. You
> may want to lower your stakes, take your
> time, be patient, study the game, and then
> move back up. Good luck, and I wish I had
> the bankroll to bet that big.

Thank you for your post. But, I must say it's only units. It is completly umemportant if I play at a $10.00 table or $100.00 table. All of the principals play out exactly the same.

I'm only a KO player and according to that system when the counts call for it, I must send it in. (As is the case with all systems.) Unfortunately I pretty much only play in AC. I'm a high stakes person in regular life, so why wouldn't I be a high stakes player? The problem in AC, is that anything outside the pit is 8 decks. I am not confortable playing with 8. But, even if I were playing at a $5.00 table, I would still be playing with black chips only. To me UNITS are UNITS, and it's inconsequential what the denominations are. That is where risk of ruin comes. Mine could be one thousand dollars and yours one million.

If I gave you the impression I am complaining about the losses, I apoligize. I come in here when unusual things happen to me and I need reassurance that what i'm doing is correct. The wins come much more frequently then the losses. I apply every principal in KO combined with every page and word that is spoken by THE DON. (they only thought the real one died on 6/10 ) I can't do more then that. I love the criticism I recieve in here. How the hell else can I learn.

Here is a kick for you. I just purchased a watch (looks like any other) that is for handicapped people who can not hear. I am able to set it and it vibrates on my wrist silently. This allows me to preset my sessions, so I am constantly warned as to how long im playing without anyone else knowing. Now this was as a response to some nice person posting several months ago that perhaps my sessions were to long. My point is I evaluate every word that is said in here (good or bad) and I make my adjustments accordingly.

And when all else fails, I go looking for the DON

Thanks to everyone in here, I sincerely appreciate your feedback.

Hollywood

[BlackJackHack]

I realize this is a bit of a change in topic - but I noticed that you said you play in AC. Do you actually win there with any consistency? Does anybody on this board win there?

I live only a three hour drive from AC, but based on what I have read about the conditions there, have never even tried to play there. As a green chip player, the $250 airfare to LV (or $200 to Mississippi) is a pretty nominal amount of money to spend to get better conditions.

[Hollywood]

> I realize this is a bit of a change in
> topic - but I noticed that you said you play
> in AC. Do you actually win there with any
> consistency? Does anybody on this board win
> there?

> I live only a three hour drive from AC, but
> based on what I have read about the
> conditions there, have never even tried to
> play there. As a green chip player, the $250
> airfare to LV (or $200 to Mississippi) is a
> pretty nominal amount of money to spend to
> get better conditions.

Yes I win in AC very consistantly. But I find myself very successful leaving my sessions short.
As a green chip player, you are mostly confined to 8 deck shoes. However, on a busy weekend like last night, many of the PITS have tables set up outside the pit with 6 decks and a 25 dollar minimum bet.

I never have large wins in AC. I consider 20 to 30 unit wins adequate. When I reach those wins I frequently casually end my sessions. For me, (and everyone is different) that's what works in AC. Because it's a very short ride for me I have a great deal of disapline and have no problem playing a short time having dinner and going home.

This is very difficult, because sometimes this happens early in my session. In that case I pick myself up and get the hell out of dodge. This is only about $ for me. If I can pick up 2 to 3 thousand in a short period, it does not excite me to think I could turn that into 7 to 10 thousand.
I am very content with a win.

It's kind of like the person that goes to weight watchers and after an entire week, only loses 2 ounces.
At least they didn't gain anything

Good luck,

Hollywood