czechs play: Casinos asking for social security #

[czechs play]

i got approached by 2 casinos for my social during my last visit. This is the 1st time i've ever been asked this. i told the PC that 10K is the trigger for disclosing this. but he responded that the new law recently changed from 10K to 3K for requiring social. Something related to anti-terrorism measures....Is this correct? If so, then i find out it inconceivable they would ask every player for their social just for buying in at least 3K, or multiple buy ins.
That same PC told me i have to provide it, or i could no longer continue playing. The whole thing seemed fishy to me, so i bailed.

Or is this maybe a new way to get counters to leave the tables?

[Trapper]

Transactions involving cash in casinos have been regulated federally for several years under Title 31 of the Bank Secrecy Act. Nevada until July 1, 2007 had its own regulation (reg 6A) and was exempt from Title 31 as long as its rules conformed to the Bank Secrecy Act. The reporting thresholds were similar to Title 31 but the requirements for tracking multiple transactions below the $10,000 level were much less strict.

On July 1, under pressure from the federal government to make their rules conform to the the new requirements imposed by the Patriot Act, Nevada repealed Reg 6A so cash transactions are now regulated under Title 31 as they are throughout the rest of the country. This caused massive confusion among casinos who should have seen it coming. Every casino interprets the regulations differently. Casinos are now required to track the cash transactions of a player throughout the casino in every pit. Many find it easier to demand ID and SSN at a lower level so that they have you covered in case your cash-outs eventually hit the $10,000 figure. Previously, Gaming Control could be called if a casino refused to cash out a customer without ID or a SSN. Now that the requirements are federal and not state, they are taking a hands off approach if a casino claims their actions are necessary for compliance with Title 31.

> i got approached by 2 casinos for my social during my
> last visit. This is the 1st time i've ever been asked
> this. i told the PC that 10K is the trigger for
> disclosing this. but he responded that the new law
> recently changed from 10K to 3K for requiring social.
> Something related to anti-terrorism measures....Is
> this correct?

Gaming Control Board: RE: TITLE 31 PATRON IDENTIFICATION PROCEDURES

[rick666]

three years ago i was playing black jack in a strip casino in las vegas; after one hour of play a suit came to ask me my social security number; i have played one hour the day before in the same place and won $1500; this session i was loosing the same amount; i knew the issue gave my number and stay there because i wanted to know if i was in the griffin book or a similar organization; 15 minutes later a manager and two men in black escorted me to the cashier and read me the 89 law; i cannot go again in this place even if i do not play and i will not try; those people are not friendly you can be sure they are non-educated or if you wish educated to intimidate you

[Trapper]

[Trapper]

You were trespassed. Sometimes people refer to this as being 86ed.

[LV Bear584]

...he responded that the new law recently changed from 10K to 3K for requiring social.

He lied to you. The law does not require it unless you go over $10K. Some casinos have set their policy to harass patrons beginning at 3K. As Trapper correctly pointed out, the worthless and corrupt Nevada Gaming Control Board is allowing this abusive harassment tactic. So far, the worst abuser by far has been Wynn.

For some background on how we got to this point, see link below.

Nevada Gaming Control Board gives casinos permission to harass patrons with

[Trapper]

And the Gaming Control Board makes it clear they will not interfere with requests for ID or SSN at any level - not just $3000. There is nothing really stopping the pit from demanding the documents at $1000 or any level before cashing out your chips even though no reporting threshold has been reached ($1,001). There must be some sort of legal issue here despite the attitude of Gaming Control.

[rick666]

that`s it 86`ed; giving your social security number is not a good idea; to be escorted outside and hearing the trespassing law is not an interesting experience but it is an experience you do not forget; i do not think i will risk to go to this casino again

[Wylie]

I've studied this extensively. To the best of my knowledge:

All of the accurate information can be found at the FinCEN web site. It is against the law for a casino to divulge any part of the process or requirements to a customer.

If a foreign citizen has a domestic address, they must also provide a tax ID number or SSN. Having a mailing address in the US may not be a good thing for a foreign player.

The casinos are scared of huge fines by FinCEN. The FinCEN audit office in NV is just opening up. The $3K number is both a casino policy thing and the amount that a SARC may be filed for suspicious behavior.

I hope this helps.

-Wylie

[adhoc]

They may ask, but that does not mean you have to comply. Program Gaming number into your cell phone. If they refuse to cash chips, make the call.

[Trapper]

> They may ask, but that does not mean you have to
> comply. Program Gaming number into your cell phone. If
> they refuse to cash chips, make the call.

Unfortunately, if the statements posted to their site reflect current practices, Gaming may do nothing for you. Since the change to Federal rules, they seem to have taken the position that they have no jurisdiction over Title 31 rules and will support the casinos in their request for ID at whatever threshold the casinos choose. The Bear posted part of the quote below on his web site.

"As you know, the Board has no enforcement authority over the federal Bank Secrecy Act or related regulations. To that end the Board will not advise licensees regarding their efforts to comply with the federal requirements. As a result, if a licensee chooses to implement an identification standard for transactions less than $10,000, the Board will support a licensee who refuses to make a cash payment until the patron provides appropriate and requested information. "

It looks like your only recourse may be the courts.

There was a typing error in my post above. I wrote "...even though no reporting threshold has been reached ($1,001)." That should, of course, have been $10,001.

RE: TITLE 31 PATRON IDENTIFICATION PROCEDURES

[adhoc]

> Unfortunately, if the statements posted to their site
> reflect current practices, Gaming may do nothing for
> you. Since the change to Federal rules, they seem to
> have taken the position that they have no jurisdiction
> over Title 31 rules and will support the casinos in
> their request for ID at whatever threshold the casinos
> choose. The Bear posted part of the quote below on his
> web site.

> "As you know, the Board has no enforcement
> authority over the federal Bank Secrecy Act or related
> regulations. To that end the Board will not advise
> licensees regarding their efforts to comply with the
> federal requirements. As a result, if a licensee
> chooses to implement an identification standard for
> transactions less than $10,000, the Board will support
> a licensee who refuses to make a cash payment until
> the patron provides appropriate and requested
> information. "

> It looks like your only recourse may be the courts.

> There was a typing error in my post above. I wrote
> "...even though no reporting threshold has been
> reached ($1,001)." That should, of course, have
> been $10,001.

If my chips were not cashed and no help was forthcoming from Gaming, I would not hesitate to file suit. If Gaming will not assist the gaming public, as is their statutory duty, then maybe the courts will. It would seem easy to find a case where it is obvious that money is not being laundered or otherwise exchanged in an effort to thwart the purposes of the Title 31. Someone needs to step up to the plate on this one.

[Trapper]