My second Bankroll has been wipe out..

[gamblingghost]

If you have sufficient bankroll, you take it. I mean, after all, all your playing is treading water more or less waiting for that big wave (long plus count) to come in. You ride it- sometimes you look like a movie star-- sometimes you "wipe out." I can't begin to tell you how many times the plus count was killing me and the last few rounds got it all back.

In that regard, I know what you are talking about, and I have no science to back it up. Sometimes the cards seem to be against you. We know that a normal dealer shuffle does not cause a random distribution of the cards; it takes seven passes to do that. We also know that a shoe can be set up so that the house or player wins no matter what boneheaded or smart plays are made (look up information on "coolers"). It makes me wonder, if the cards ever get to such a state as to cause you to lose most of the hands, will the lack of truly random shuffling possibly cause them to remain in that deadly configuration for several shoes? I am just throwing that out there-- I don't have a shred of evidence to support it. Call it ploppy or voodoo, but I have been known to change tables when thing go badly enough south in terms of hand winning ability shoe after shoe, but mind you, never in the middle of a plus count, only after the fact.

I would think it is possible. I once had a guy say he is going to make the Jack of hearts jump
out of the deck and shoot cider in my left ear. I said 5 says no way. Shortly after that I
was cleaning cider out of my left ear!! Now, everytime I see the J of H I turn my left ear
away!

[forecast rain]

It sounds as if you didnt have the proper bankroll. A session will never bust proper bankroll. Rule of thumb is 100x top bet. Also, even though you are a counter, you must train to remove emotion. I have put in 73,000 hands of manual play on CVBJ. It was at about 25,000 hands when I stopped paying attention to the ups and downs each hand would bring .... and started looking forward to the end of the session to record my win/loss. If you love the game, you'll be back, but practice is so important along with truly understanding the results of the counting system and betting strategy you use.

[gamblingghost]

It sounds as if you didnt have the proper bankroll. A session will never bust proper bankroll. Rule of thumb is 100x top bet. Also, even though you are a counter, you must train to remove emotion. I have put in 73,000 hands of manual play on CVBJ. It was at about 25,000 hands when I stopped paying attention to the ups and downs each hand would bring .... and started looking forward to the end of the session to record my win/loss. If you love the game, you'll be back, but practice is so important along with truly understanding the results of the counting system and betting strategy you use.

If I had only 100 max bets left I would quit. Where is Avenger when he is needed?? Fractional Kelly anyone?

[Aslan]

I would think it is possible. I once had a guy say he is going to make the Jack of hearts jump
out of the deck and shoot cider in my left ear. I said 5 says no way. Shortly after that I
was cleaning cider out of my left ear!! Now, everytime I see the J of H I turn my left ear
away!

[Aslan]

If I had only 100 max bets left I would quit. Where is Avenger when he is needed?? Fractional Kelly anyone?

I use a similar guideline. It's not perfect, but it will do for the most part. Yes, to be totally risk adverse, you would have to kick it up a bit. It gets to the point of ridiculous, as in $100,000 bankroll to win $10 an hour, but believe me, you won't go bust. lol Or am I wrong?

[Ouchez]

Sick, go slow and easy, and find a game with LS. When I first started to ride Cycles it was a 1965 Honda S-90, today I ride the Monsta Max, lesson,..,, take your time and work your way up to the big action, lotsa time.

However, if you feel you are in danger back-off,,,and in the future,, or now, talk to Norm about his Great Software.

Also read the post by "Doc" on BJ21 free board.

Ouchez

[gamblingghost]

I use a similar guideline. It's not perfect, but it will do for the most part. Yes, to be totally risk adverse, you would have to kick it up a bit. It gets to the point of ridiculous, as in $100,000 bankroll to win $10 an hour, but believe me, you won't go bust. lol Or am I wrong?

I don't think so. I think 400 max bets has worked very well for me. But, I think another very critical part
is: short sessions. This can't be proven mathmatically but I know it has panned out for me.

[forecast rain]

If I had only 100 max bets left I would quit. Where is Avenger when he is needed?? Fractional Kelly anyone?

The original post ask a valid question and I repsonded then you get comments like above which mean what? If you had ... so you dont.

Aslan!! Hope all is going great with you! My question to you is this. How far do you take a high count
that is killin you? I mean, just because the count is high do you always continue until your count
goes down or is there a time when enough is enough?

How far what? What does that mean? Yeah, quit as soon as you win 1 hand in a high count .... thats enough.

[Tarzan]

Wiped out in one shoe, one playing session... Lost a second bankroll. It's fairly obvious what the primary problem is. What of additional issues that could pan out to disaster? It was asked about the count or method being used, the game being played against and conditions, etc. but he was possibly doomed right from the start overbetting his bankroll. The increased ROR means there's an increased chance you can lose!

The next post down the road will consist of "What do you MEAN I shouldn't be playing a H17 8 deck game and there are better rules and conditions? I thought all blackjack games were the same!" This game is about fractions of a percentage point. Sometimes it seems as if people don't quite understand this concept and it's implications. You are walking a tightwire at all times and you can never lose your balance! In other words, you must always stay focused. If you fail at basic money management concepts then you are in trouble regardless of how you fare at other aspects of attempting to be an AP.

I've lost trip bankrolls. It happens! That is not my concern though... overall profitability is. This is a game where you take three steps forward and then get knocked two steps back along the way! There IS no just walking in the casinos and easily taking their money, contrary to the hype and urban legend of such things, yet such things lure the unwary into the belly of the beast unprepared. Casinos eat up novice APs for breakfast, chew them up and spit them out all day long. The game has gotten more difficult and being an AP in today's modern blackjack game requires considerably more "fine tuning", making many publications from say the 80's to have lots of good basic information but still be obsolete in today's games. I wrote words sometime back to the effect of, "Most novice AP's fail and only a few end up being truly successful. This means that in the overall, casinos turn a profit out of card counters in the overall and therefore should welcome the card-counting community with open arms!"

I would venture to say that the original poster is a little short of the mark on money management factors. I suggest he stop and evaluate each and every aspect of his play before putting any further money at risk. I suggest he read, practice and study because going into a casino half-cocked and unprepared is a great way to fall off that tightwire!

[itrack]

First of all, the OP is playing a very good game, one of which most people here will most likely never get the opportunity to play. From the few times that I have talked to the OP though...STOP PLAYING BLACKJACK. Are you still playing lucky lucky? Overbetting your bankroll? Steaming? I told you these things a long time ago, and I really hope that for your sake you can stop playing BJ, at least for the time being. Take a good long break and maybe, just maybe come back to BJ with a fresh outlook on the game...

[gamblingghost]

The original post ask a valid question and I repsonded then you get comments like above which mean what? If you had ... so you dont.

Sorry about the cryptic response. I am merely echoing the eloquent Avenger about
fractional kelly.



How far what? What does that mean? Yeah, quit as soon as you win 1 hand in a high count .... thats enough.

What is your session BR compared to your total BR? Would you sit at one table until it is
all gone? Does movin around play into your style? The OP lost all at one table.

[Lowrider]

Invest in Norm's aka QFITs fantastic CVCX product....spend some hours getting used to it...plug your available games and counting method into the simulator and tweak the betting patterns until your risk of ruin is 10% or less....do not play under any circumstances with a higher RoR than 10%. Ignore the hourly win rate for now so long as it is positive.

Very, very few aspiring APs ever start out with the perfect starting bankroll that provides a solid hourly win rate AND a RoR of 2% or less...it is very unrealistic....forget about Kelly that is a complete pain in the ass and an advanced bet sizing technique...you don't want to be sitting there every ****ing hand at the table calculating what 2.776% of you BK is to find the proper Kelly bet size...ridiculous.

When I started my RoR was about 13% or about FULL KELLY for the AP snobs out there..lol...I had two choices...play with too high of a RoR or don't play at all...

I LOST ALMOST 85% OF MY BANKROLL WHEN I STARTED PLAYING ... I WAS AT ALMOST 3 STANDARD DEVIATIONS WHICH WAS VERY DEBILITATING..I ALMOST QUIT, I OVERBET, I DRANK TOO MUCH, ETC. ETC. ETC.

FIGHT THROUGH IT AND PLAY YOUR GAME...IT WILL COME AROUND...DO NOT QUIT...THERE IS NO BETTER TEACHER THEN PAIN AND SUFFERING ...U CAN DO IT LUKE!

[forecast rain]

What is your session BR compared to your total BR? Would you sit at one table until it is
all gone? Does movin around play into your style? The OP lost all at one table.

Ultimately my bankroll is 125x my max bet, but i'm also playing 2 hands which has a lowered risk. My trip bankroll is roughly 1/3 of my overall and my session bankroll is roughly 1/6 of my overall.

Yes, it is possible that I lose my session bankroll in 1 sesssion. Most of the time I wont, but if I do, then thats fine.

Sessions should be in the range of 30 min to 2 hours. "This is a range, because 2 hours is way too long, but variations to session length is a must"

All in all, there are different approaches towards session, trip, and main bankroll. They all have to do with your attitude towards risk.