Bettie: Stratosphere dealer, policeman accused of cheating

[Bettie]

I'm surprised no one else caught this, especially considering some of the recent threads on cheating. Now, this is a single individual in collusion with another individual and not casino-sanctioned cheating, but it still makes you think twice when you sit down to a game. I don't think the lousy $1,000 they made was worth it, that's for sure!

From today's LVRJ:

A Stratosphere dealer and California police officer were arrested for allegedly cheating at blackjack, authorities said.

The dealer, 52-year-old Edgar Lovinaria, and officer, 33-year-old Edgar Zermeno were arrested and charged by Clark County prosecutors with two felony counts each of conspiracy and two counts each of cheating.

Zermeno made about $1,000 during two nights of gambling earlier this month, said Keith Copher, chief of enforcement for the Nevada Gaming Control Board.

The Torrance police officer allegedly was seen cheating May 5 and May 6 by pit bosses and security officers who watched him on surveillance cameras, Copher said.

"The dealer was exposing his hole card to him" and paying even when Zermeno had a losing hand, Copher alleged.

Attempts to contact Zermeno and Lovinaria were unsuccessful.

Each count carries a sentence of up to six years in prison.

Arraignment was scheduled for June 6, Deputy District Attorney Brian Rutledge said.

Torrance police have placed Zermeno on paid administrative leave and have begun an internal investigation, Lt. Brad Wilson said.

Zermeno, who was hired by the force in May 2003, would lose his job if he is convicted of a felony, Wilson said.

[Shaggy18VW]

Funny,
Just exposing the hole card would be enough to make a fortune in this scam. Yet they couldn't stop there. The dealer also made payoff errors. What a couple of dorks.

[methodman]

> dealer was tired of my winning and on a large
bet I was dealt a 6 -5 of course got ready to double and the dealer thought it would be funny or something to skip me and deliver the next card to the only other player, it was a ten...I complained to the dealer he brought in the floor and they replied we can not back up the cards.. and gave me the next card a losing one..yeah ok i told the floor person....but you can give me the win, your dealer made the mistake NOT me..
not results there...typical cheating..

a few hand more cheating with the new pit idiot..

[Brick]

About the same scam has happened to me a few times, except while I was placing my double down bet the dealer quickly pulled a card out of the shoe and STOPPED in mid air while looking at my card. He then set my double down card face down next to the shoe and proceeds to say I'm sorry you cant have this card because I drew it out of the shoe before you placed your doubled down bet,which was not true. I called the floor over and she told the dealer to burn it and deal me another one. I get an ace for a grand total of 12,I lose,and lose big. As I tryed to stress in my earlier comments about cheating...dealers dont have to be a MECHANICAL WIZ to cheat.

[methodman]

> jealous dealers/pit crew
suddenly change the game

often the rules..
sick..

they also stopped me when I doubled on another players hand..for a nice total...as they pushed the bet back and said you can double only on your own hand.

[Victoria]

This kind of cheating can only be done with the help of the floor.
Hand signals are not only for the benifit of the house but can be to your benifit. Also, in a pitch game, putting out your double down bet before exposing your blackjack or eleven when doubling, would take any doubt of your intentions away. That said, if they will not back up the cards, the pit has the power to pay you, by not paying you in a case where if the dealer did not mess up you would have been an obvious winner, the pit is saying the following: I do not appreciate your business and do not want you in this casino! They are also saying that they will resolve dealer errors in favor of the house!!! This is unexceptable, as you have no real way of knowing if these are errors or on purpose. It might even be illegal or should be.
My great uncle was a pit boss (for you oldtimers in Havana) and he used to say, settle any reasonable request in the players favor with a smile, you can wait a few extra minutes to get their money and now they will like you when you take it and come back.

Was the pit a dual rate? They know not what they do, but want to make points with the company.
Did you ask her supervisor to come over?
Victoria

[kbp]

In a shoe game in the Bahamas, a players initial hand totaled ten (he had two fives) and he pushed out a stack (4 or 5 reds) matching his initial bet. The dealer gave him a card (a ten, if I remember right) and then dealt to the next player. The first player cried, ?That was a split, not a double down.? and proceeded on a five minute tirade with the dealer and then the pit about it. Pit says play on (as if it was a double down). He ends up winning the double. Twenty minutes later he?s still going on about the ?cheatin? pit? or whatever.

IMO, it was the dealer who initially made the mistake, albeit an honest one, but like Victoria is implying, sometimes a player might want to be a little more proactive or preemptive.

[Sonny]

> Also, in a pitch game, putting out your double
> down bet before exposing your blackjack or
> eleven when doubling, would take any doubt
> of your intentions away.

Good point. Unless you are the first player you could easily get your doubles and splits on the table before the dealer gets to your spot. The hand gestures in a shoe game are easier for a dealer to "overlook" but if you accompany them with a verbal cue they should get the massage. This is a good way to get the upper hand and prevent possible mistakes.

> That said, if they will not back up the cards, > the pit has the power to pay you...

Most of the casinos I know have a policy of never "backing up the cards" stated in their training manuals. If the player declines the next card they will usually call it a dead hand and allow the player to get their money back. As you said, anything less is unacceptable. The best defense against places like that is to avoid them altogether. As you said, that may be exactly what they are trying to tell you.

> Was the pit a dual rate?

No THAT should be illegal! Bad things happen when you give one person too much power. Even worse things happen when they THINK they have more power!

-Sonny-

[Brick]

If you have good reason to believe a dealer is messing with you,then avoid them...ruthless dealers dont ask the pit for permission to mess with your head,they just do it.

[LVBear584]

I don't think the lousy $1,000 they made was worth it, that's for sure.

The officer and the dealer are entitled to the presumption of innocence like anyone else. Nevada Gaming Control Board agents making a bogus arrest of a winning player at the behest of a casino would not be anything new or unusual.

We would like to think that Gaming Control Board agents know the law and would accurately apply it. Hole carding, in the absence of collusion with the dealer, is of course a perfectly legal method of skilled play (Nevada Supreme Court case 15797, Sheriff of Clark County v. Einbender and Dalben, 12/18/1984). But from the Grosjean case, we know that at least some Gaming agents don't know the law, or are so corrupt that they don't care what the law says.

Ignorant or corrupt government officials are always a concern. I think one thing that may have put this one over the top is that the dealer was also allegedly paying even when Mr. Zermeno had a losing hand. However, a sloppy dealer who accidentally exposes his hole card may also be sloppy on payoffs. The news reports do not mention HOW MANY wrongful payouts were allegedly made. If just a few, it isn't evidence of any collusion. Dealer payoff errors are common.

What strikes me as odd about this story is that the player "won" only about a thousand dollars. If there was collusion, and if he was getting paid on losing hands, how could he "win" so little? I suspect there is more to this story than we will ever find out, unless the case actually goes to court. The Nevada Gaming Control Board is able to operate in secret, and hide behind state statutes permitting such secrecy.

[litcrit]

Maybe I'm just chicken, but over the last twenty years or so I've run into several dealers who've either exposed hole cards, or made several mistakes in my favor. I've taken advantage of it, but after it happened 3 or 4 times I always colored up and left, just because I didn't want to be accused of being in collusion with a corrupt dealer --- even if he was not corrupt, but rather just foolish or stupid. I've probably given up a lot of money for that, but I've slept better.

[Bettie]

> The officer
> and the dealer are entitled to the
> presumption of innocence like anyone else.

Maybe the police officer, but the dealer? No way ? they're evil! Just teasing; you're right, of course, though I assumed that the arrests were made based on more info than was provided in the article. I have no reason to believe that there is more to the story, except that there always is.

Bettie