Why is it that for a play all game if you increase the bet spread to the max (1 to 250) SCORE will continue to increase but if backcounting is selected SCORE plateaus once the spread hits around 15? (Note: The minimum bet is forced to $10 for both play-all and backcounting).
Is it because WR/Hand and SD/Hand are increasing at the same rate once the spread reaches around 15? If so, why doesn't this happen at some point in a play-all game?
Thanks,
MJ
> Why is it that for a play all game if you increase the
> bet spread to the max (1 to 250) SCORE will continue
> to increase but if backcounting is selected SCORE
> plateaus once the spread hits around 15? (Note: The
> minimum bet is forced to $10 for both play-all and
> backcounting).
Try this: Back-count and use only a 1-4 spread; then use a 1-12 spread and report the SCORE difference (tiny). That's why, in the Chapter 10 charts of BJA3, for the back-counting sims, we didn't go beyond a 1-4 spread. There's no need to. The starting unit changes drastically, but the top bets are virtually identical.
That's not the case for play-all.
Don
Don
> Try this: Back-count and use only a 1-4 spread; then
> use a 1-12 spread and report the SCORE difference
> (tiny). That's why, in the Chapter 10 charts of BJA3,
> for the back-counting sims, we didn't go beyond a 1-4
> spread. There's no need to. The starting unit changes
> drastically, but the top bets are virtually identical.
For the 1 to 12 spread ($58 to $696) CVCX gives a SCORE of 38.51. (Side question: if the minimum unit is $58, why does the software have the minimum bet at $74?)
For the 1 to 4 spread ($140 to $560) CVCX gives a SCORE of 37.63.
Less than a dollar difference in SCORE. There is certainly a drastic difference in the starting unit (58 vd 140) but there is a $136 difference in top bets.
I see what is happening, as the bet spread increases the minimum unit decreases but the top bet plateaus to maintain a certain level of kelly criterion.
But what about when the minimum bet is forced? Now, the minimum is fixed at say, $50 and cannot be reduced by the software as the spread increases. SCORE plateaus again as the spread increases despite the max bet increasing indefinitely. What causes the SCORE to plateau in this instance?
MJ
> For the 1 to 12 spread ($58 to $696) CVCX gives a
> SCORE of 38.51. (Side question: if the minimum unit is
> $58, why does the software have the minimum bet at
> $74?)
> For the 1 to 4 spread ($140 to $560) CVCX gives a
> SCORE of 37.63.
> Less than a dollar difference in SCORE. There is
> certainly a drastic difference in the starting unit
>> (58 vd 140) but there is a $136 difference in top
> bets.
Good! You're learning.
> I see what is happening, as the bet spread increases
> the minimum unit decreases but the top bet plateaus to
> maintain a certain level of kelly criterion.
There you go!
> But what about when the minimum bet is forced?
Then you don't have a SCORE anymore, because if you insist on a $10,000 bankroll, AND you insist on articulating a certain spread, then YOU don't get to pick the minimum bet -- the software does. You can't dictate all three variables at the same time and still claim to have a SCORE. You may have an hourly win rate, but it is no longer a SCORE. You don't get to choose the size of the unit.
> Now, the minimum is fixed at say, $50 and cannot be reduced
> by the software as the spread increases. SCORE
> plateaus again
See above. It's not a SCORE anymore.
> as the spread increases despite the max
> bet increasing indefinitely. What causes the SCORE to
> plateau in this instance?
If we assume that, above, you meant to write "win rate," the answer is that a) the minimum bet doesn't have a large impact on the final win rate, and b) raising the max bet, which may not get placed until a very high TC, doesn't affect things much, either, because of the rarity of ever getting to place the bet.
Don
> Then you don't have a SCORE anymore, because if you
> insist on a $10,000 bankroll, AND you insist on
> articulating a certain spread, then YOU don't get to
> pick the minimum bet -- the software does. You can't
> dictate all three variables at the same time and still
> claim to have a SCORE. You may have an hourly win
> rate, but it is no longer a SCORE. You don't get to
> choose the size of the unit.
Well, I don't insist on a 10k bank, although I realize that is what SCORE assumes. I did, however, designate a value for the bank, a spread, and force the unit size. So you are saying that you cannot set ALL three variables and call it SCORE. Then what is it, C-SCORE? Technically, I guess it would not be considered SCORE because SCORE assumes optimal betting right down to the dollar, whereas if we set the unit size and then bet in multiples of the minimum bet, the bet ramp is not optimal to the dollar.
But one thing I noticed is that even if you do not force the minimum bet (meaning the software selects it), as long as the bet spread is the same, SCORE remains EXACTLY the same as when you DID force the minimum bet. In other words, SCORE is the same regardless whether you force the minimum bet or not.
> See above. It's not a SCORE anymore.
Then what is it? The box in CVCX says "SCORE". :-)
> If we assume that, above, you meant to write "win
> rate,"
Certainly not. WR increases indefinitely as the spread increases, "SCORE" or "C-SCORE" however, plateaus once the spread reaches around 15.
> the answer is that a) the minimum bet
> doesn't have a large impact on the final win rate,
Thats true from what I observed on CVCX.
> and
> b) raising the max bet, which may not get placed until
> a very high TC, doesn't affect things much, either,
> because of the rarity of ever getting to place the
> bet.
I suppose that is true, but raising the max bet doesn't just alter the betting ramp at one TC, it steepens the entire ramp for all TC. That is to say you will be wagering more money at each true.
But, that really doesn't help me understand why the SCORE plateaus as spread increases with a minimum bet forced. I guess the only reason is that WR/Hand and SD/Hand increase proportionally once the spread reaches a certain point?
MJ
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