Sun Runner: What is going on in Arizona?

[Sun Runner]

I know (think) BJ is being played on the Native American land only. Right?

Is there a collection fee per hand?

CSMs, ASMs, or hand shuffles?

Type games?

Thanks for any feedback.

[Wolverine]

> I know (think) BJ is being played on the
> Native American land only. Right?

correct. Reservations only.

> Is there a collection fee per hand?

Nope.

> CSMs, ASMs, or hand shuffles?

Fort McDowell has machine shuffles and dealer placement of the cut card. Cards are then dealt from a shoe.

> Type games?
6D, H17, DAS, Split up to 4 hands. Not sure if aces are resplit or not.

> Thanks for any feedback.

The Fort also has a "mindplay" like device that reads your bets in the circle, but they do not read the cards as far as I can tell. The cards do NOT go into the discard tray to read the order. However, I did notice a difference in the cards being used since they have a noticible strip on the side of them. I assume this is the "card marking" for the table or tray.

I've counted there a handful of times and not had any problems.

There are probably 5 other casinos in the Phoenix Metro area that offer BJ. Have no idea about the other ones. sorry.

[MikeH]

I played at Cliff Castle (Camp Verde I think, half way between Phoenix and Flagstaff) a few weeks ago. In fact I popped my counting cherry there, making a very pleasing profit.

Conditions there were exactly as reported by Wolverine. 6D, cutting off about 1.5 decks in general. Oh, and you could resplit aces I seem to recall. I dont think they have a Mindplay contraption though.

> correct. Reservations only.

> Nope.

> Fort McDowell has machine shuffles and
> dealer placement of the cut card. Cards are
> then dealt from a shoe.
> 6D, H17, DAS, Split up to 4 hands. Not sure
> if aces are resplit or not.

> The Fort also has a "mindplay"
> like device that reads your bets in the
> circle, but they do not read the cards as
> far as I can tell. The cards do NOT go into
> the discard tray to read the order. However,
> I did notice a difference in the cards being
> used since they have a noticible strip on
> the side of them. I assume this is the
> "card marking" for the table or
> tray.

> I've counted there a handful of times and
> not had any problems.

> There are probably 5 other casinos in the
> Phoenix Metro area that offer BJ. Have no
> idea about the other ones. sorry.

[Sun Runner]

[Flyboy]

Good games in the Tucson area, too. Casino Del Sol, Casino of the Sun (its sister property) and Desert Diamond South have shoe games with S17, at least as of last November. Most tables are $5 min, but that leaves the few $10 min tables less crowded. Desert Diamond South, located closer to upscale retirement communities of Green Valley, has a few $25 tables.

> I know (think) BJ is being played on the
> Native American land only. Right?

> Is there a collection fee per hand?

> CSMs, ASMs, or hand shuffles?

> Type games?

> Thanks for any feedback.

[Wolverine]

I posted earlier that the tables had strips on the sides of the cards and they took "pictures" of your bets using a MindPlay like device to accurately rate your play. Well, I oversaw a Windows screen open to a software called "Bravo" checking a player's betting correlation. So, while the true MindPlay issues of casino cheating do not exist there, they can certainly track the cards played and your bets.

I have been counting there and have not had any direct issues, but I will definitely keep a low profile!

[The Chaperone]

They are known for flyering. There are some pretty decent games in the Phoenix area though. Check out Scottsdale. The Tucson casinos are good and have already been mentioned in this thread.

[Wolverine]

> They are known for flyering.

I'm not sure what the term "flyering" means. Please explain. thanks.

[Bettie]

Flyering refers to the casino practice of taking their info on you and sending it to other casinos, either within their own family of casinos or all the local casinos, depending upon their relationship with other casinos. If you've ever seen a Griffin flyer, that's what usually gets faxed around (hence the term "flyering"), but they can make up their own with a security picture of you and any other info they can add, like name being used, etc.

Bettie

[Wolverine]

Thanks Bettie. I'm pretty careful there, but I will keep an even lower profile now. Next trip out that direction will be later in the year (thanks to the HEAT outside!).