phantom007: Oklahoma Blackjack?

[phantom007]

Oklahoma...is it a Southern State?...or a Western State?...or a Southwestern State?...I do not know...but hopefully this post is proper.

Further, the information provided below is 2nd Hand, and relatively incomplete, therefore, apologies to all for same...my Source was "just having fun", so did not pay attention to all rules, penetration, heat, etc.

So, here is what I was told:

1. Certain Oklahoma Indian Casinos now offer Blackjack. The game is dealt out of a Shoe, so she thinks it is 5-deck (I suspect 6D).
The bet range was $2.-to-$100.

2. A 25-cent commission/fee is charged on EACH hand played, irrespective of amount bet. Further, this fee is the ONLY profit the Casino can make from BJ. Therefore, several "PERKS" are offered to "give back" to players any other profits that the Casino might make from the game, including:

(A) Suited BJ's pay $25. Bonus, in

addition to 3:2 on the base bet.

(B) 3-Card Flushes, that beat the

Dealer, are also paid a $25. Bonus.

So my Questions are:

(1) Is the above M/L correct?

(2) If correct, is the 12.5% disadvantage at a $2. bet, and/or the $0.25 disadvantage at a $100. bet, within the realm of disadvantages that can be overcame and further exploited by "Routine" means of Card Counting.

(3) Is Oklahoma a Southern or Western State?

Thank you in advance for your gentle and thoughtful responses.

phantom007.

[Okie]

Oklahoma Blackjack. Not as good as advertised. It is 25 cents for every $25 dollars bet. There are some exceptions to this rule but they are bad execptions ie...50 cents for single deck. Some single, some double, but almost all 6 deck.

The "perks" are a little different. They have several different ways that they "give the money back to the players" The most common is through free tourney's and give aways. Your source has the "give aways" a little mixed up. Suited BJ's $25...yes. Three card flush...no. Its a suited 678 that pays $50.

My short answer on Oklahoma casino's is...don't bother. If you are a little creative you can find ways to make a positive EV game but its hard and not worth your time. To top it off, I would almost bet that either the Indians or the dealers are skimming. The indian casino's in Oklahoma are not a tightly run ship.

[Sun Runner]

> Further, the information provided below is
> 2nd Hand, and relatively incomplete,
> therefore, apologies to all for same

This information is first hand.

Generally, 6D, DAS, DOA, S17, no surrender.

The games suck. IMHO your ONLY possibility is to back count, play high counts, and play in their small tournaments.

Each tribe runs it a little differently; the following is a fair representation of the action.

The state does not allow them to profit from BJ play. Therefore, you pay them from a $.25 to $1.00 per hand to fund their operation. The per hand rake is determined by the table stakes -higher limit tables get higher per hand rakes. (I use the term higher limit loosely -more on that below.)

What happens to the chip migration from the players to the tray? Theoretically it is paid back to the players -remember they are prohibited from profiting from the play -only the per hand rake.

[I have my doubts.]

None the less, the BJ assumed profits are returned to the players by the casino's sponsoring of weekly no entry fee tournaments, the purse of which is the alleged weekly BJ profits -again, I have my doubts.

Yes, they have all kinds of weird bonus plays as you describe (7 card charlies pay $$$, 6,7,8 suited 21 pays $$$, three BJ's in a row pays something else, if you have your back to the table and BJ while singing the national anthem it pays $$$, etc.) I actually saw a lady hit three BJ's in a row -"now I can buy that dishwasher" she announced to all. I think she was serious.

At the one casino I am most familiar with the table stakes I've seen are $5 to $200 or $25 to $200. Now, how they decided to charge $.50 per hand and $1.00 per hand respetively is beyond me. Their max bet is $200 either way.

Here is (another) oddity -penetration is 70% to 80% on the $5 table -but 50% on the $25 table. Go figure. What are they afraid of? Charging $1.00 per hand on a $25 table with a max 1 to 8 spread, they should be dealing down to the bottom as fast as they can! Of course they don't have to because people play the game anyway .. blows me away.

The level of play is terrible.

"How come you stood on that 16 v 10 and you hit them other ones? We always stand on 16."

When I split twos it drives them nuts.

Standing on a 12 v 3 -most just look at me like I dropped in from outer space.
[of course a close encounter of the third kind is likely in this area!]

If you are serious about BJ -it is extremely frustrating -but the only game around. Plan to do a lot of waiting, watching, and blending in waiting for the high counts and a not so full table. They are hard to find.

Last time I was there and wonged in on a high count, a farmer guy said "out in Vegas they don't let you join in after the dealin's started."

"Really" I said, and doubled my 8 v 5. He just laughed.

Life to date, I'm ahead of the Native American's. Something way back in my mind tells my I'm just living two standard deviations to the right and the day of reckoning is coming. We'll see!

SR

[Norm Wattenberger]

> None the less, the BJ assumed profits are
> returned to the players by the casino's
> sponsoring of weekly no entry fee
> tournaments, the purse of which is the
> alleged weekly BJ profits -again, I have my
> doubts.

If true and the play is that bad, the tournaments would be a great game.

BJStats

[phantom007]

Thanks for the good info. and the warnings. Since I am on a anal retentive streak will probably still have to check it out for myself. If nothing else, can haul back a pickup load of "untaxed cigarettes", and sell them back home to increase my EV.

phantom007.

[Punter]

> If true and the play is that bad, the
> tournaments would be a great game.
I figured that a tournament was the way to go on a visit to OK last summer. I was in Ft. Sill and the tournament started at 7:00 pm. I got knocked out at 6:00 am the following day. That's how many players were in the game. Seemed like the whole state was there. I did not hang around to see the winner but management was hoping to conclude by noon. Top prize was $12,500 with no entry fee.

[Nash Rambler]

Are any of the games hand dealt?
Do they have other games like 3 card poker?
How do they shuffle the cards?
Are there any limits over $200?

[Sun Runner]

Where I frequent ...

> Are any of the games hand dealt?
No

> Do they have other games like 3 card poker?
No -bingo and VP only

> How do they shuffle the cards?
No CSM's. I do not know shuffle tracking -but I have "mapped" the predominant shuffle and it is fairly consistent.

> Are there any limits over $200?
No

BTW, I would be interested to know the drills in Norman, McCloud, Clinton, and Siloam Springs if anybody is listening.

SR

[Okie]

I haven't been to the casino's you mentioned but I believe that Cherokee in Siloam Springs is the same as Cherokee in Tulsa which I am familar with. 6 deck,double all,split to 4,no rsa, and stand on Hard 17. They used to have a $500 dollar max here but I haven't been there in a while. I heard Miami,OK has some single deck. Don't know anything about it except they charge twice the commission.