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10-liner: Five-card charlie 21strategy deviations and a return check
Rules:
8 deck
S17
D9 (actually D8, but that's irrelevant)
DAS
Suited BJ pays 2:1
Five card 21 (not just any five-card non-busted hand) pays 2:1
This is a game in the Betfair "zero margin" series.
1) what is the precise return with perfect play? The claim is 100% exactly, but I can find no corroboration for this.
2) Does the "five card 21 pays 2:1" necessitate any strategy variations? My feeling is that it doesn't but would like confirmation. It is EXACTLY 21 required, and only five cards, not six or more or any five-card charlie.
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10-liner: Re: Five-card charlie 21strategy deviations and a return check
You also cannot split aces.
8 deck
S17
D9 (actually D8, but that's irrelevant)
DAS
AA cannot be split
Suited BJ pays 2:1
Five card 21 (not just any five-card non-busted hand) pays 2:1
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Don Schlesinger: Re: Five-card charlie 21strategy deviations and a return check
> Rules:
> 8 deck -0.573%
> S17 0
> D9 (actually D8, but that's irrelevant) -0.087%
> DAS +0.142% (probably slightly less, since D9)
> Suited BJ pays 2:1 +0.566%
> Five card 21 (not just any five-card non-busted hand)
> pays 2:1 +0.2% (estimate from Wong's "Pro BJ," p. 85)
Grand total: +0.248.
> This is a game in the Betfair "zero margin"
> series.
Appears too good to be true. So, they probably cheat! :-)
> 1) what is the precise return with perfect play?
See above.
> The claim is 100% exactly, but I can find no corroboration
> for this.
They're being modest. :-)
> 2) Does the "five card 21 pays 2:1"
> necessitate any strategy variations?
Yes, but very few. See Wong, p. 96.
> My feeling is
> that it doesn't but would like confirmation. It is
> EXACTLY 21 required, and only five cards, not six or
> more or any five-card charlie.
A few hands are hit that otherwise wouldn't be. Can't add very much.
Don
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10-liner: Re: Five-card charlie 21strategy deviations and a return check
Thanks.
Actually, D8 isn't totally irrelevant - I forgot that A7 qualifies as "8", so A7 v. 3 - 6 can double. That offsets the no split for AA quite a bit.
Still seems over 100% though. I make AA hit only about -0.17, and the A7 doubles about +0.11 or so.
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10-liner: Re: Five-card charlie 21strategy deviations and a return check
This appears to be the full tally:
8 deck -0.573%
S17 0
D9 -0.087%
DAS +0.142% (probably slightly less, since D9)
Suited BJ pays 2:1 +0.566%
Five card 21 pays 2:1 +0.2%
Total: +0.248.
Then:
-0.176 for no ace split
Total: +0.0717
+0.0273 for A7 v 3, 4, 5, and 6 double not hit.
Grand total +0.099
I've taken the double and AA figures from a combination of the EV tables at BJmath and Don's "frequency" charts in BJA.
They claim 100% exactly. Something is wrong somewhere.
Could the 0.2% on five card 21 possibly be an overestimate?
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MGP: Re: Five-card charlie 21strategy deviations and a return check
> Rules:
> 8 deck
> S17
> D9 (actually D8, but that's irrelevant)
> DAS
> Suited BJ pays 2:1
> Five card 21 (not just any five-card non-busted hand)
> pays 2:1
> This is a game in the Betfair "zero margin"
> series.
> 1) what is the precise return with perfect play? The
> claim is 100% exactly, but I can find no corroboration
> for this.
> 2) Does the "five card 21 pays 2:1"
> necessitate any strategy variations? My feeling is
> that it doesn't but would like confirmation. It is
> EXACTLY 21 required, and only five cards, not six or
> more or any five-card charlie.
I assumed SPL3 as well.
The EV's are:
TD: 0.21050738242957%
CD: 0.219422756294933%
There are a few 4-card exceptions but their not worth typing out for 0.009%
These are not estimates - they should be exact top-of-the-deck values.
Sincerely,
MGP
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