VerdugoJohn: Secret Signal by Dealer?

[VerdugoJohn]

When playing reds at a small non-Vegas Nevada casino a week or so ago, the dealer paid off a winning bet in a strange way...was it a signal to upstairs/video tapes?

I was heads up, only 1 chip out, but during a run of negative counts was making strategy variations, and had a run of winners...was not up much, but i had stopped chatting with the dealer and was focused on the game...had been playing only for about 15 minutes at this table, and had played about 20 minutes at another table about an hour earlier, winning only $25 playing red...seems ridiculous to think that i was suspect, anyway, i was up about $25 at this table when...

to payoff the single red, the dealer grabbed a stack of reds, placed them next to my chip, and then put back all but one chip into the chip tray...i did not say anything for a minute, and then said "gosh, i thought you were going to overpay me by mistake" that got nothing more than a head shake and a smile.

got no heat for the rest of the session--about another 10 minutes--but the wierd payoff did not seem right...i moved on to another town next day, and played another couple of hours, but never saw any dealer pay off like that...ususally they grab only what they need to pay winning bets.

so was that a signal to watch me? the dealer was experienced and had been dealing for decades...

[Parker]

> When playing reds at a small non-Vegas Nevada casino a
> week or so ago, the dealer paid off a winning bet in a
> strange way...was it a signal to upstairs/video tapes?

> I was heads up, only 1 chip out, but during a run of
> negative counts was making strategy variations, and
> had a run of winners...was not up much, but i had
> stopped chatting with the dealer and was focused on
> the game...had been playing only for about 15 minutes
> at this table, and had played about 20 minutes at
> another table about an hour earlier, winning only $25
> playing red...seems ridiculous to think that i was
> suspect, anyway, i was up about $25 at this table
> when...

> to payoff the single red, the dealer grabbed a stack
> of reds, placed them next to my chip, and then put
> back all but one chip into the chip tray...i did not
> say anything for a minute, and then said "gosh, i
> thought you were going to overpay me by mistake"
> that got nothing more than a head shake and a smile.

> got no heat for the rest of the session--about another
> 10 minutes--but the wierd payoff did not seem
> right...i moved on to another town next day, and
> played another couple of hours, but never saw any
> dealer pay off like that...ususally they grab only
> what they need to pay winning bets.

> so was that a signal to watch me? the dealer was
> experienced and had been dealing for decades...

While it is a little unusual for the dealer to do this when you had only bet a single chip, I have seen dealers pay off bets in this manner many, many times. I wouldn't give it another thought.

[VerdugoJohn]

> While it is a little unusual for the dealer to do this
> when you had only bet a single chip, I have seen
> dealers pay off bets in this manner many, many times.
> I wouldn't give it another thought.

Thanks, I appreciate your words...and of course, worrying about that casino is not worth the bother dollarwise...

still, one plays reds to gain experience, and i have mixed feelings about that incident. On one hand, if i was detected i guess my play is too transparent, even though i was betting low...on the other hand, its validation that the dealer/casino might think my play is good...

and i can't quite shake the feeling that somewhere before i've heard/seen the payoff move the dealer made...perhaps it was one of those gambling shows on the cable networks...anyone else recall anything like that?

[Todd]

I think he might have been saying, "Because you had a run of winners, you should have bet more and I could be paying you more." or "I think you are going to win the next hand, so you should bet more." Or "You're not so smart because you won the last 5 hands and you haven't bumped up your bet."

> When playing reds at a small non-Vegas Nevada casino a
> week or so ago, the dealer paid off a winning bet in a
> strange way...was it a signal to upstairs/video tapes?

> I was heads up, only 1 chip out, but during a run of
> negative counts was making strategy variations, and
> had a run of winners...was not up much, but i had
> stopped chatting with the dealer and was focused on
> the game...had been playing only for about 15 minutes
> at this table, and had played about 20 minutes at
> another table about an hour earlier, winning only $25
> playing red...seems ridiculous to think that i was
> suspect, anyway, i was up about $25 at this table
> when...

> to payoff the single red, the dealer grabbed a stack
> of reds, placed them next to my chip, and then put
> back all but one chip into the chip tray...i did not
> say anything for a minute, and then said "gosh, i
> thought you were going to overpay me by mistake"
> that got nothing more than a head shake and a smile.

> got no heat for the rest of the session--about another
> 10 minutes--but the wierd payoff did not seem
> right...i moved on to another town next day, and
> played another couple of hours, but never saw any
> dealer pay off like that...ususally they grab only
> what they need to pay winning bets.

> so was that a signal to watch me? the dealer was
> experienced and had been dealing for decades...

[Sonny]

[Dean]

Were you ALWAYS betting one chip? Perhaps you were betting several chips a few hands before, and so the dealer would have to grab several chips from his tray and then "level off" whatever payoff was required. On the next hand, the dealer may have grabbed several chips (out of habit) from his tray: if he put back the "extra" chips before paying you, it might have looked suspicious. It could be that the "casino procedure" is that dealers don't put back chips untill players have been paid off.

I hope this helps, replies appreciated.

> to payoff the single red, the dealer grabbed a stack
> of reds, placed them next to my chip, and then put
> back all but one chip into the chip tray...i did not
> say anything for a minute, and then said "gosh, i
> thought you were going to overpay me by mistake"
> that got nothing more than a head shake and a smile.

> got no heat for the rest of the session--about another
> 10 minutes--but the wierd payoff did not seem
> right...i moved on to another town next day, and
> played another couple of hours, but never saw any
> dealer pay off like that...ususally they grab only
> what they need to pay winning bets.

> so was that a signal to watch me? the dealer was
> experienced and had been dealing for decades...

[VerdugoJohn]

> Were you ALWAYS betting one chip? Perhaps you were
> betting several chips a few hands before, and so the
> dealer would have to grab several chips from his tray
> and then "level off" whatever payoff was
> required. On the next hand, the dealer may have
> grabbed several chips (out of habit) from his tray: if
> he put back the "extra" chips before paying
> you, it might have looked suspicious. It could be that
> the "casino procedure" is that dealers don't
> put back chips untill players have been paid off.

> I hope this helps, replies appreciated.

thanks for responding, and sorry i did not notice this earlier, i had figured the mnatter had passed

At the time this happened there was a negative count and i had only one chip out...i had bet a few hands in succession of only a single chip, all of those counts negative...i was the only one at the table at the time

i was moving my bet levels with the count and there had been some decks with positive count earlier. I had won and spread upward...no jumping to more than 2x's previous, but i must confess i did raise after a loss a couple of times---i don't recall taking insurance, but that could have happened once on a big count--i did not insure a natural--and of course i made any of the classic plays that signal a solid player/counter--such as hitting a soft 18 versus a 9-A, altering my play with a 16 versus a 10, and soft doubling ...i think i was up around $40 or so when the incident happened...and i had not tipped yet---if i do that i ususally wait until the end of the session

i don't think i ever move my lips when i count, although i don't try to put down an act and perhaps i puzzle over some of the variations from basic strategy...i could have slipped this once though

this was the only time the dealer did this in the entire time i was there

i guess i am not experienced enough to have looked for how the chips were arranged in the tray

anyway, i seem to recall a show on Travel Channel or some other cable network that showed a similar dealear action as being a signal to surveilance to watch the table...

anyway, i have not been back there since, and i doubt i would have any problem there or anywhere in that town

if it was a signal, in a funny way i feel good...i will consider it a endorsement of the quality of my play

[Wolverine]

> and i had not tipped yet---if i do
> that i ususally wait until the end of the session

Better to tip EARLY in your session to get the dealer on your side rather than at the end. Just my humble opinion from being a tip dependent stiff myself.

> if it was a signal, in a funny way i feel good...i
> will consider it a endorsement of the quality of my
> play

Never feel good about someone in the casino figuring out that you can count cards--EVER. If the dealer can figure it out, then the EYE will certainly figure it out. Take it as a sign that perhaps you need to clean up the act, find some camo, etc... Again, just my 2 cents.

[VerdugoJohn]

> Better to tip EARLY in your session to get the dealer
> on your side rather than at the end. Just my humble
> opinion from being a tip dependent stiff myself.

thanks, good idea

> Never feel good about someone in the casino figuring
> out that you can count cards--EVER. If the dealer can
> figure it out, then the EYE will certainly figure it
> out. Take it as a sign that perhaps you need to clean
> up the act, find some camo, etc... Again, just my 2
> cents.

thanks again...of course, i do not like the idea of being found out...and i must confess i am rationalizing away being detected...yet i belive i play a such a low level that camo/cover play would cut my winning potential from very little to less than very little...still, it was a minor league experience that will be helpful if i play at higher levels and want to avoid detection longer

thanks again