Designated Driver: Common mistakes beginning card counters make

[Designated Driver]

What are the most common mistakes that the beginning card counter usually makes? What are the worst?

In terms of personal management? Money management? Game management(Playing decisions)? Camoflauge?

Just want to avoid any pitfalls on my way to success. :-)

Thanks,
The Designated Driver

[Jack Fate]

as I have made every mistake in the book I will respond here.
Playing bad or unbeatable games.
Not spreading enough.
Playing like a machine.
Tipping.
Not pestering the pit for comps.
Playing through negative shoes.
Not leaving when conditions change.

O.K. Somebody else take over.

[Magician]

[Bettie]

staring at the cards/table (you need to look at the waitresses or they'll know something's up)

watching each individual card as it is exposed (look away while the deal is happening; you should be able to count by twos during the play)

not reacting to losses or wins (everyone is happy to win/sad to lose, but counters are usually quiet)

saying the count out loud (yes, it happens)

Bettie

[Parker]

You've gotten some good responses so far. However, the most common mistake rank beginners (meaning the first time or two in a casino as a counter) make is, quite simply, losing track of the count. It doesn't matter how fast someone can count down a deck or drill with practice software, nothing really prepares a person for all the distractions of the real-world casino environment.

This doesn't happen to everyone, but it is certainly quite common. I don't mind admitting that it happened to me, and it happened again the first few sessions after I switched to a multi-level count.

If this happens to you, don't get upset. Either play basic strategy and bet the min until the shuffle, or simply leave the table. Do not attempt to guess what the count was and continue counting. This can prove costly.

Once someone can make it through a shoe without losing the count, the next most common newbie mistake, as many have pointed out, is looking like a counter and not like a gambler. Remember, this is supposed to be fun.

Finally, the most costly mistake rookies make is not sticking to the plan. Depending on the personality of the individual, this can take the form of not pushing the big bets out when the count calls for it (especially when losing badly), or trying to recover from a losing session in a few hands by overbetting the advantage.

[Sun Runner]

Excellent advice from all.

Add'lly, don't get caught doing long division on a cocktail napkin while solving for the TC.

My advice for you on the maiden voyage ..

Sit down, bet the minimum, and play all for a while. Double and split, the minimum, as BS dictates. Keep the RC, calc the TC, review what you should be doing (raising bets here, lowering bets there, etc) but bet the minimum and get a feel for what it feels like to be there and playing. It'll be different than you think but it won't take long to get in the groove. All the while, if the count tanks, get up and find a new table with a new shoe coming out.

Expect to lose some money but it should not be a killer.

Play a little SD, DD, and shoes if you can find decent games. Don't play 6:5.

How long are you gonna be there?

Then, later in the trip, if it were I, I'd find the best shoes in town and Wong the hell out of them. I don't know your BR, but if you were betting nickles before, wait for a plus three maybe and drop some $25 or $50 bets on the table. Be blatant, I don't care. Shoot, see if you can get barred -it's no big deal. If they ask, tell 'em it's your first trip to a casino and your trying to figure out whats what! You are young, from out of town, probably won't be back for awhile, screw 'em!

My fear for you is your expectation may be to high. Don't let getting rich overnight cause you to start 'gambling' on Sunday night before you leave.

Good luck.

[Designated Driver]

Thanks Jack.

And while you may have made every mistake in the book(a feat which I doubt) I am sure that I will probably find some new ones.

But let's hope not. :-)

Desi. D.

> as I have made every mistake in the book I will
> respond here.
> Playing bad or unbeatable games.
> Not spreading enough.
> Playing like a machine.
> Tipping.
> Not pestering the pit for comps.
> Playing through negative shoes.
> Not leaving when conditions change.

> O.K. Somebody else take over.

[Designated Driver]

> staring at the cards/table (you need to look at the
> waitresses or they'll know something's up)

Actually, I'm afraid I may not see the cards at all. :-)

> not reacting to losses or wins (everyone is happy to
> win/sad to lose, but counters are usually quiet)

This sounds like being sociable, something I am not good at nor comfortable with. I like the sound of silence. Being quiet.

> watching each individual card as it is exposed (look
> away while the deal is happening; you should be able
> to count by twos during the play)

I think I can do that. Two, four, six, eight, ten. LOL!

> saying the count out loud (yes, it happens)

What, I just lost $300 in the last hour! Let's hope not. :-)

> Bettie

Thanks Bettie,
Desi. D.

[Designated Driver]

Thanks Parker.

I will try to remember to have some fun.

Desi. D.

> You've gotten some good responses so far. However, the
> most common mistake rank beginners (meaning the first
> time or two in a casino as a counter) make is, quite
> simply, losing track of the count. It doesn't matter
> how fast someone can count down a deck or drill with
> practice software, nothing really prepares a person
> for all the distractions of the real-world casino
> environment.

> This doesn't happen to everyone, but it is certainly
> quite common. I don't mind admitting that it happened
> to me, and it happened again the first few sessions
> after I switched to a multi-level count.

> If this happens to you, don't get upset. Either play
> basic strategy and bet the min until the shuffle, or
> simply leave the table. Do not attempt to guess what
> the count was and continue counting. This can prove
> costly.

> Once someone can make it through a shoe without losing
> the count, the next most common newbie mistake, as
> many have pointed out, is looking like a counter and
> not like a gambler. Remember, this is supposed to be
> fun.

> Finally, the most costly mistake rookies make is not
> sticking to the plan. Depending on the personality of
> the individual, this can take the form of not pushing
> the big bets out when the count calls for it
> (especially when losing badly), or trying to recover
> from a losing session in a few hands by overbetting
> the advantage.

[Reid DeCarde]

There is not much I can add other than pointing out that I am in many ways still a beginner. I have played a few times over the past 2 years, but not often. I learned a lot of mistakes last year when I went for a few days to Vegas.

Right now I am in training for a trip to Vegas in order to get my speed and accuracy up so that I can relax a bit and appear more natural. I think that practicing with software ( I use CV )is a big help. Make it push you! I also think counting down a deck is good because you can see and feel real cards.

All the advice you got is great so I will just tell you what mistakes I made.

Watching every card come out.

Playing tired.

Playing after a few drinks.

Not trusting the count, putting too little out when the count is good.

Having a losing attitude. I don't believe that better cards will mystically come out if I have a positive attitude. But I think that I appear more relaxed and like a guy looking for a fun time.

Being paranoid about getting "caught". If you're low limit like me, they really don't care. And if they do, so what.

Like I said, I don't think I am telling you things that these folks didn't already say. I just wanted to tell you the things I learned from my own mistakes. I would suggest do other things besides gambling. I have plans to see a couple of friends for lunch or dinner. I'm going to the desert. I'm driving to the extraterestrial highway, you know that must be a laugh! All in all, for me as a casual player, it's a gambling vacation. I hope to have a good time and come out ahead on my play.

I hope you enjoy yourself!

[Trapper]

Especially if you lost the count early in the shoe. Essentially you would be playing a deck with worse penetration and the dealt cards are the equivalent of the cards behind the cut card. If there was a huge negative count before you got distracted or if you were playing single deck you might want to wong out anyway.

[Designated Driver]

> watching each individual card as it is exposed (look
> away while the deal is happening; you should be able
> to count by twos during the play)

I have seen that a lot of people, including yourself have said that it is a mistake to watch each individual card as it is dealt.

However, while I do agree with this(that it is a mistake), I cannot fully understand why this would be the case.

I mean, it is my money that is at stake and if I care about that money(which I do/will, a great deal), then why shouldn't I be hyper-attentive about what is happening in the game, watching each and every card?

Also, if you are making certain strategic decisions which may alter the outcome of your wager, then I say that you damn well better know what is going on to affect that.

And this is particularly true when there is a pervasive myth that other player's decisions can actually affect the outcome of your own hand.

A myth which I do not subscribe to of course. :-)

But still...an excuse to watch the cards.

If I had it my way, I would want to know everything that is happening within the game, from the playing decisions of every player and their money bet to the procedure of the dealer; how he shuffles, deals and plays his hands(according to what rules) as well as how he pays off or collects bets, how the pit bosses operate and how much the "eye in the sky" sees.

I believe you that must know everything, EVERYTHING about the game that you are playing and what is happening in it. This is not a trivial point or extra-fine detail, but a necessity, if you want to play the right way. IMHO.

Maybe I had better work in surveillance. :-)

Desi. D.

[Designated Driver]

> Excellent advice from all.

Yes, I agree. Thanks all. :-)

> My advice for you on the maiden voyage ..

> Sit down, bet the minimum, and play all for a while.
> Double and split, the minimum, as BS dictates. Keep
> the RC, calc the TC, review what you should be doing
> (raising bets here, lowering bets there, etc) but bet
> the minimum and get a feel for what it feels like to
> be there and playing. It'll be different than you
> think but it won't take long to get in the groove. All
> the while, if the count tanks, get up and find a new
> table with a new shoe coming out.

> Expect to lose some money but it should not be a
> killer.

Financially no, but psychologically, maybe. Not that I am going to kill myself if I bust out.

> Play a little SD, DD, and shoes if you can find decent
> games. Don't play 6:5.

Why don't they have 5:4, it looks nicer and sounds better, not the mention the extra advantage.

> How long are you gonna be there?

I will be in LV for about a week.

> Then, later in the trip, if it were I, I'd find the
> best shoes in town and Wong the hell out of them. I
> don't know your BR, but if you were betting nickles
> before, wait for a plus three maybe and drop some $25
> or $50 bets on the table. Be blatant, I don't care.
> Shoot, see if you can get barred -it's no big deal. If
> they ask, tell 'em it's your first trip to a casino
> and your trying to figure out whats what! You are
> young, from out of town, probably won't be back for
> awhile, screw 'em!

BR is pretty small, to say the least. Getting barred will be my badge of honor. Just hope I don't get it until my dying day.

> My fear for you is your expectation may be to high.
> Don't let getting rich overnight cause you to start
> 'gambling' on Sunday night before you leave.

Well yes, I came to get rich in a hurry, not to win a few hundred bucks or so. And if I actually do make $700 to cover the cost of the trip and supposedly break even, I would consider the trip to be a total bust.

> Good luck.

Thanks again,
Desi. D.