KidDangerous: Tournament play

[KidDangerous]

When the a casino has a BJ tournament, how much info do you have to give up to participate?
Is it minimal to begin with then if you win you have to hand over id or something? Anyone know?

Also wondering something about Humble. If my memory serves me correct, in the back of the book didn't he offer up some kind of challenge to anyone thinking they could beat him? For X amount of dollars as a wager. I may be getting it confused with Revere. I am almost certain he did.
If he did, anyone know if anyone took him up on this? If so, who won?
Far as that goes anyone know of anyone ever taking on Revere's challenge?
What conditions would this be played under?

I would think some neutral party would shuffle the shoe. Then note what order all the cards were in, so that after one person played against the shoe. You could basically reconstruct the shoe and then let the next person go up against an identical shoe? The first person obviously couldn't be watched by the second. I could be way to bored and way off here. I don't know. Lemme know.

Kid

[stainless steel rat]

> When the a casino has a BJ tournament, how
> much info do you have to give up to
> participate?
> Is it minimal to begin with then if you win
> you have to hand over id or something?
> Anyone know?

> Also wondering something about Humble. If my
> memory serves me correct, in the back of the
> book didn't he offer up some kind of
> challenge to anyone thinking they could beat
> him? For X amount of dollars as a wager. I
> may be getting it confused with Revere. I am
> almost certain he did.

More than one author has done this. It lends "credibility" to their system they believe. As a general rule, they also specify rules for the "challenge" that are so lop-sided no one would either want nor be able to challenge them. One well-known counting system had a challenge for $2M minimum. Who would be able to do that and why would they?

> If he did, anyone know if anyone took him up
> on this? If so, who won?
> Far as that goes anyone know of anyone ever
> taking on Revere's challenge?
> What conditions would this be played under?

> I would think some neutral party would
> shuffle the shoe. Then note what order all
> the cards were in, so that after one person
> played against the shoe. You could basically
> reconstruct the shoe and then let the next
> person go up against an identical shoe? The
> first person obviously couldn't be watched
> by the second. I could be way to bored and
> way off here. I don't know. Lemme know.

> Kid

Playing out a challenge would be tough. Wizard of odds has a better approach of using a huge sim to compare two strategies, ie his challenge to progression sellers... But as far as playing a challenge, think about how wild the variance can be. You could take an A-5 counter vs say Uston's APC, and the outcome would be a coin toss after only a couple of hours of playing...

[KidDangerous]

> More than one author has done this. It lends
> "credibility" to their system they
> believe. As a general rule, they also
> specify rules for the "challenge"
> that are so lop-sided no one would either
> want nor be able to challenge them. One
> well-known counting system had a challenge
> for $2M minimum. Who would be able to do
> that and why would they?

> Playing out a challenge would be tough.
> Wizard of odds has a better approach of
> using a huge sim to compare two strategies,
> ie his challenge to progression sellers...
> But as far as playing a challenge, think
> about how wild the variance can be. You
> could take an A-5 counter vs say Uston's
> APC, and the outcome would be a coin toss
> after only a couple of hours of playing...

I think thats the beauty of the challenge. Sure, most systems stack up ok on a sim. But using a human to play the same system is where the challenge is. With sims you negate human error. It would be like filling up two buckets with gas, setting them side by side, and throwing a match on both and measuring which one burns faster. On the other hand you could put one bucket of gas into a gremlin and the other bucket into a Lexus, put them on the line and see which one performs better. I equate the gas to a system and the vehicle to a person. Thats why I mentioned reconstructing the deck in the exact same order so that the 2 are playing against the exact same game. You can then see who produces better results in identical settings.

I just reread what I wrote, I think I kind of strayed from my original question. May have even jumbled up my digressing. But, whatever, I'm not rewriting it again. It's interesting to think about anyway.

[MrPill]

> When the a casino has a BJ tournament, how
> much info do you have to give up to
> participate?
> Is it minimal to begin with then if you win
> you have to hand over id or something?
> Anyone know?

Kid,

All the tourneys I have played at require that you have a players card, so whatever information given to get your card is what is required.

When I have won those tournys I have had to produce my driver's license.

Pill

[KidDangerous]

Ok, thats along the lines of what I imagined would happen. Thanks for the input. Do they pay you right there when you win? or is there some sort of claim process?

[Parker]

> When the a casino has a BJ tournament, how
> much info do you have to give up to
> participate?
> Is it minimal to begin with then if you win
> you have to hand over id or something?
> Anyone know?

Tournaments usually require that you join their players club (if you're not already a member). You have to show ID (Driver's License, etc) to claim any prize. If you win over $1200 they fill out a W2G and you have to provide a social security number in order to claim the cash.

> Also wondering something about Humble. If my
> memory serves me correct, in the back of the
> book didn't he offer up some kind of
> challenge to anyone thinking they could beat
> him? For X amount of dollars as a wager. I
> may be getting it confused with Revere. I am
> almost certain he did.
> If he did, anyone know if anyone took him up
> on this? If so, who won?
> Far as that goes anyone know of anyone ever
> taking on Revere's challenge?
> What conditions would this be played under?

All of these contests, challenges, etc., were nothing but marketing gimmicks. Remember, Humble and Revere were selling their advanced systems for $200 each, which was a fair chunk of change back then.

Also remember that the only way to test a system back then was to rent time on an expensive mainframe computer, which was beyond the means of most players. Nowadays is is a simple matter to sim a billion hands or so and determine exactly how effective a system might be.

[KidDangerous]

Something else that caught my eye about back then was Thorp saying a fellow could go a long way with 200 bucks with virtually no risk of going broke.
Oh to have been playing in those days

Kid

[Parker]

> Something else that caught my eye about back
> then was Thorp saying a fellow could go a
> long way with 200 bucks with virtually no
> risk of going broke.
> Oh to have been playing in those days

This was when $2 min tables were the norm, as were deeply dealt single deck games. Also, $2 would actually buy something.

[KidDangerous]

Is it ever revealed or does you know who the little mystery guy is he refers to several in the book? (Beat the dealer) I have a hunch who it might have been, but not sure.

Kid

[MrPill]

> Do they
> pay you right there when you win? or is
> there some sort of claim process?

They counted out 150 Benjamins at the cashier counter!

Pill

[KidDangerous]

Dammit man! Nice Payoff.!

Kid