creatureman: A 69 Problem

[creatureman]

Hey not that kind of 69!!! get your mind out of the gutter. Seriously, I have a hard time counting sixes and nines when i cant see the top of the card's. Because i have to think that it is the opposite of what it is. When i do that i hesitate long enoung to lose the count at times. I been praticeing on CVBJ. I was just wondering if any of you guys have had problems with this and/or have some tips or mental tricks for this problem, Thanks

[Norm Wattenberger]

Use a table format that allows you to see the tops.

[MJ]

> Use a table format that allows you to see
> the tops.

Norm, I have the same problem as Creatureman has. In CVBJ if there are lots of cards on the table sometimes the player can only see the bottom of his cards. If I see a 6 or 9 I have to pause to get it straight whether the card is actually a 6 or 9. This can be confusing.

In actual casino play will the visibility of the top of the cards ever be blocked by other cards? Or is the problem of "69" only limited to counting simulators?

-MJ

[Norm Wattenberger]

Try another table format. The four spot ultra-real for example. V4 will have a six spot ultra-real table.

[Deuce]

When will V4 be released? What else will be new?

[stainless steel rat]

> Norm, I have the same problem as Creatureman
> has. In CVBJ if there are lots of cards on
> the table sometimes the player can only see
> the bottom of his cards. If I see a 6 or 9 I
> have to pause to get it straight whether the
> card is actually a 6 or 9. This can be
> confusing.

> In actual casino play will the visibility of
> the top of the cards ever be blocked by
> other cards? Or is the problem of
> "69" only limited to counting
> simulators?

> -MJ

Here is a sample: play a 2D game. Everyone picks up their cards, dealer has a 10 up. Peeks and sees an ace and flips it over without the normal insurance offer/delay. Everyone throws their hands in at the same time. Better be ready. Cards are not neatly arranged. That is one reason (I believe) that Norm has included the scattered option for counting drills.

I think the answer to your problem is just practice. set up cvbj so that the drills present the cards vertically only, which means you only see the bottoms, I believe you will find in time that this "problem" goes away.

here's another thing to show how this program can help.

I like to practice playing 2d heads-up mode which is a special mode of CVBJ with just me and the dealer, with bigger cards, discard tray, and so forth. If you play in this mode, I find the animation to be sluggish, and I turn the animation speed all the way up, and dealer speed up almost all the way. And that seems perfect for me. But when I go back to a normal table mode, things seemed to be impossibly fast since the graphics are far faster with small cards resulting in fewer pixel changes. Originally I could not begin to count and would have to slow the animation speed back down. But I've been practicing quite a bit, and yesterday my wife walked up behind me and asked "what in the hell are you doing? You obviously aren't practicing counting at that speed." Suddenly I noticed that things were running like mad, yet I was having no trouble keeping up and had not even really realized how fast things were going. To see what this is about, ramp the speeds up and watch the dealer's hand as it is complated. flap-flap-flap-flap and the program is taking your cards. It is done _quickly_. And with some practiced, you not only can keep up, you will keep up with no problems at all.

Ditto for those 6's vs 9's. You have to be able to handle this. Remember, if you sit at 1st or 3rd base, the cards on the other end will appear sideways to you anyway. Hence the CVBJ drill allowing you to use random orientation so that you get used to seeing 6's/9's right-side-up, upside-down and even side-ways. Keep at it and it won't take long before you can read 'em anyway but face-down.

If you can handle face-down, you are _really_ set.

[Norm Wattenberger]

> When will V4 be released? What else will be
> new?

Not for quite awhile yet. Too early for me to list features.

[creatureman]

> Here is a sample: play a 2D game. Everyone
> picks up their cards, dealer has a 10 up.
> Peeks and sees an ace and flips it over
> without the normal insurance offer/delay.
> Everyone throws their hands in at the same
> time. Better be ready. Cards are not
> neatly arranged. That is one reason (I
> believe) that Norm has included the
> scattered option for counting drills.

> I think the answer to your problem is just
> practice. set up cvbj so that the drills
> present the cards vertically only, which
> means you only see the bottoms, I believe
> you will find in time that this
> "problem" goes away.

> here's another thing to show how this
> program can help.

> I like to practice playing 2d heads-up mode
> which is a special mode of CVBJ with just me
> and the dealer, with bigger cards, discard
> tray, and so forth. If you play in this
> mode, I find the animation to be sluggish,
> and I turn the animation speed all the way
> up, and dealer speed up almost all the way.
> And that seems perfect for me. But when I go
> back to a normal table mode, things seemed
> to be impossibly fast since the graphics are
> far faster with small cards resulting in
> fewer pixel changes. Originally I could not
> begin to count and would have to slow the
> animation speed back down. But I've been
> practicing quite a bit, and yesterday my
> wife walked up behind me and asked
> "what in the hell are you doing? You
> obviously aren't practicing counting at that
> speed." Suddenly I noticed that things
> were running like mad, yet I was having no
> trouble keeping up and had not even really
> realized how fast things were going. To see
> what this is about, ramp the speeds up and
> watch the dealer's hand as it is complated.
> flap-flap-flap-flap and the program is
> taking your cards. It is done _quickly_. And
> with some practiced, you not only can keep
> up, you will keep up with no problems at
> all.

> Ditto for those 6's vs 9's. You have to be
> able to handle this. Remember, if you sit at
> 1st or 3rd base, the cards on the other end
> will appear sideways to you anyway. Hence
> the CVBJ drill allowing you to use random
> orientation so that you get used to seeing
> 6's/9's right-side-up, upside-down and even
> side-ways. Keep at it and it won't take long
> before you can read 'em anyway but
> face-down.

> If you can handle face-down, you are
> _really_ set.

Thanks for the input guys, Steel and Ofcourse Norm awsome program CV is. I'll just practice more vertically and hopefully i can master that face down counting to..lol

[Fred Renzey]

> I have a hard time
> counting sixes and nines when i cant see the
> top of the cards.

snip> When playing in a casino, I never look at the index number of the card. It's the pips that tell me their value. It gives a much larger picture for identification and is practically foolproof since seeing only half a card will tell you what it is.
The closest call is that between an 8 and a 10-pip. You have to be able to see whether there are three pips on each side, or four. If backcounting from 12 feet away, it can get just a bit testy.
Again, it's the concept of "picture recognition" -- not "index reading".

[Norm Wattenberger]

CVBJ does have the option of using cards without numbers in both the drills and game and with the both the 2D and perspective cards. The counting drill using pips only is a real workout.

> snip> When playing in a casino, I never
> look at the index number of the card. It's
> the pips that tell me their value. It gives
> a much larger picture for identification and
> is practically foolproof since seeing only
> half a card will tell you what it is.
> The closest call is that between an 8 and a
> 10-pip. You have to be able to see whether
> there are three pips on each side, or four.
> If backcounting from 12 feet away, it can
> get just a bit testy.
> Again, it's the concept of "picture
> recognition" -- not "index
> reading".

Serious Blackjack Software

[creatureman]

> snip> When playing in a casino, I never
> look at the index number of the card. It's
> the pips that tell me their value. It gives
> a much larger picture for identification and
> is practically foolproof since seeing only
> half a card will tell you what it is.
> The closest call is that between an 8 and a
> 10-pip. You have to be able to see whether
> there are three pips on each side, or four.
> If backcounting from 12 feet away, it can
> get just a bit testy.
> Again, it's the concept of "picture
> recognition" -- not "index
> reading".

Fred excuse my ignorance, but what is a pip?? is that the number of suits on each card??? like a nine has 9 clubs pictures on it for ex.?? thanks

[stainless steel rat]

> CVBJ does have the option of using cards
> without numbers in both the drills and game
> and with the both the 2D and perspective
> cards. The counting drill using pips only is
> a real workout.

Got into that mode once, and yes it is a real pain. But, back to pips-only in real games. Maybe I am a special case, but in the hand-held games, I have seen plenty of hands where I don't get to see the pips. I have had plenty of occasions where the unexpected dealer BJ results in chaos, and the dealer doesn't always spread the cards for each hand if the top card is not a 10, say when the two cards really land cleanly on top of each other...

I learned to read the numbers, knowing that if I can see the pips, I can almost certainly see the number. I'm not having any problems with the 6/9 issue myself, but I've been whacking away on this program every night for a long while now. As I said, for a speed test, crank all the speed sliders all the way to the right, and play. It is intense. And it will make you want to reach over the table and slap the dealer, as even the fastest dealer seems like a 90 year old grandma with the cards.

My wife bugs me about "why do that stuff so fast?" I keep explaining "makes the normal casino pace seem so slow that it is easy to keep up just with a glance here and there rather than having to stare at all the cards all the time..."

I have been counting for 4 years now. I have been using CV for a few months. No doubt my counting speed is so far beyond what it was that it isn't funny, but I was really doing OK counting before. Now I can simply almost do it blindfolded, which is a good trick for party demos.

One minor thing I would like (I haven't found a way to do this although it might be hidden and I haven't seen it yet). flashcard drills. Any drills that require a count. What about a mode where the discard tray is shown, the running count is shown, and now I have to compute the TC and then make the right index play?

Why, you ask? I find that if I practice like I play, it is easier. Giving me the TC makes me omit the computation, which is unlike what I have to do in real games. In a real game, the extra computation makes the drill different from the reality, which hurts. Make it another SSR suggestion for a program that really makes this "practice" a lot of fun.

Also, maybe a "competition mode" where you play against the timer, but then your web site can be probed to upload your best times to compare with others. Nothing like more competition.

[suicyco maniac]

I almost always use pips for counting and hardly ever even think of looking at the index...How bout everyone else..am I the exception or the rule? SM