Mr. Ed: Do I have a Problem?

[Mr. Ed]

Don't say, "yes" just because I'm asking.

I am consumed by BJ. I think about it all the time. I cite basic strategy and indices when as I fall asleep. I check out BJ websites every day, several times a day. I make spreadsheets to prove BS, support indices, determine "normal" variances, and just about anything else I can simulate or calculate. I've practiced for hundreds of hours. I can count down a deck in 20 seconds. I play out an 8 deck shoe at my kitchen table (making and paying bets) and rarely am I off by more than two RC points.

I have a separare bank account for my 450 unit bankroll. I bet 100% Kelley (actually 100% Kelly based on a 500 unit bankroll)

I'm just a beginner - maybe 60 hours under my belt. I decided to go play on a school-night. I told my wife I'll be home around midnight, but feel free to call the police at 3:00am if I'm not home yet. Well guess what? At midnight I was down 50 units (I spread 1 to 10 units). I felt great, casino conditions were good, and I'd rather go home with a profit, so I kept playing.

Next thing I know, it's 3:30 (and I'm still down 50 units) . So I hit the road. When I walk in the door at 5:00, I'm greeted by my very thankful/livid wife. Ends up she DID call the police, she called the hospitals, she had me paged at the casino and was obviously up half the night.

So do you think I have a problem - or does all this sound very familiar?

(I did learn this much - next time, I'm picking up the phone at 2:59am, waking up my sweetie, and letting her know I'm just fine and she can go back to bed.)

[Adam N. Subtractum]

...but I'm probably not the best person to ask ;-)

ANS

ps: oh yeah, one thing, is your bankroll replenishable? Most players feel that full Kelly is a little too risky.

[Mr. Ed]

I don't intend to replenish my bankroll, but full Kelly gives me a one unit bet equal to the smallest table min at my local casino.

"So double your bankroll", you say. hmmm, I'll have to think about that....I see a home equity line of credit...doubling my BR...then doubling again...and again...and agian...now I'm betting black at 25% Kelly...hmmm...

I see your point, my 50 unit loss would be a whole lot more pallatable with a 1000 unit bank! I'll be frank - I don't really expect to get rich playing BJ. I expect to walk into a casino and smugly take their money! Ha - I'll take their pennies, and if they take my pennies once in a while, So be it! I can take it. Ha!

Oh boy, I'm gonna need a whole lot of pennies!

> ...but I'm probably not the best person to
> ask ;-)

> ANS

> ps: oh yeah, one thing, is your bankroll
> replenishable? Most players feel that full
> Kelly is a little too risky.

[Parker]

Fortunately, your problem is easy to solve. Just get a cellphone so you can let the wife know when you're in the middle of a hot shoe and won't be home as planned.

Communication is important in a relationship. :-)

As someone who played at full Kelly for several years (and lost a few bankrolls in the process), I aggree with Adam - don't play full Kelly unless your bankroll is replaceable.

[cadillac]

> Don't say, "yes" just because I'm
> asking.

> I am consumed by BJ. I think about it all
> the time. I cite basic strategy and indices
> when as I fall asleep. I check out BJ
> websites every day, several times a day. I
> make spreadsheets to prove BS, support
> indices, determine "normal"
> variances, and just about anything else I
> can simulate or calculate. I've practiced
> for hundreds of hours. I can count down a
> deck in 20 seconds. I play out an 8 deck
> shoe at my kitchen table (making and paying
> bets) and rarely am I off by more than two
> RC points.

> I have a separare bank account for my 450
> unit bankroll. I bet 100% Kelley (actually
> 100% Kelly based on a 500 unit bankroll)

> I'm just a beginner - maybe 60 hours under
> my belt. I decided to go play on a
> school-night. I told my wife I'll be home
> around midnight, but feel free to call the
> police at 3:00am if I'm not home yet. Well
> guess what? At midnight I was down 50 units
> (I spread 1 to 10 units). I felt great,
> casino conditions were good, and I'd rather
> go home with a profit, so I kept playing.

> Next thing I know, it's 3:30 (and I'm still
> down 50 units) . So I hit the road. When I
> walk in the door at 5:00, I'm greeted by my
> very thankful/livid wife. Ends up she DID
> call the police, she called the hospitals,
> she had me paged at the casino and was
> obviously up half the night.

> So do you think I have a problem - or does
> all this sound very familiar?

> (I did learn this much - next time, I'm
> picking up the phone at 2:59am, waking up my
> sweetie, and letting her know I'm just fine
> and she can go back to bed.)

you just told the last 4 months of my life, damned near verbatum(including the story about the wife)
i started w/ a 600 unit br. down about 70 units as of today. you?

[Mr. Ed]

> you just told the last 4 months of my life,
> damned near verbatum(including the story
> about the wife)
> i started w/ a 600 unit br. down about 70
> units as of today. you?

After 70 hours at the table, I am down 80 units (Started with 500 units - now at 420).

...still have "faith", but I'd be happier with "proof"

[Sentry]

Mr. Ed, you have the makings of a problem.
You stayed past your quitting time and failed to honor an agreement you made with your wife.
You lost and kept playing to get even.
You lost track of time, and there is no indication in your post that you were taking any breaks. What happened- did you get counter's hypnosis or gambling fever?

You need to honestly face these mistakes and take action not to repeat them. If you find yourself slipping, you seriously might want to check into GA. Even a card counter can be a problem gambler, and I think it is possible that counters might make the worst kind, believing that if they keep on playing that their system will give them a win to get even.

I appreciate your courage in posting about your experience. Proceed carefully.

Sentry

[ZOD]

Yes, if you plan on playing for the long run. Being consumed by blackjack is bad. Playing with discipline is good. You want to win, don't you? You win with math. You win by sticking to the game plan. You win by integrating these two things with a normal balanced life.

If you're not able to do this (and some people simply can't), run fast and far. Don't be counted in the carnage of failed gamblers with failed lives. Best...

ZOD

[Sun Runner]

> You stayed past your quitting time.
> Failed to honor an agreement you made with your wife.
> You lost and kept playing to get even.
> You lost track of time.
> There is no indication in your post that you were taking any breaks.

(well in all fairness, he said he still felt "great.")

I am not sure I agree with Sentry entirely, but it sure is worth watching out for.

BTW, you also described my life entirely in the days I first got into BJ. My family was freaking out just by the sheer volume of books I was reading and spreadsheets I was running -and I hadn't even set foot in a casino yet!! My poor wife was SURE that all those BJ websites were porn sites in disguise!!

First time I played was with a SD BS only against a 6D shoe (what did I know!?) on a $1 table on the Strip. I think it was the MGM Grand. Cashed in for $10 whole dollars and played for 3 hours (11:30PM to 2:30AM) just so as to cash out with $20. That was my goal. Double the money. I just wanted to tell the wife .. "see, it works!" [If I had known then what I know now .. geez.] I remember getting down to $2 and actually having this conversation with myself about if I was going to lie to the family about losing $10 .. of course I wouldn't have .. lied that is!

My advice would be this, if you can. Tell wife you are not sure when you will be home, so don't wait up and don't get scared. (It helps to have been married for a fair length of time to pull this one off.) But it's better than making her worry.

Also, in the early days, just to test myself and make sure I didn't have some latent gambling jones I could not control - I went to the casino some days with chips in my pocket .. and just watched, just hung around an hour or two .. never played a hand .. on purpose .. just to see if I could.

Thankfully, I can.

Good luck.

SR

[Wildcard]

> I am consumed by BJ. I think about it all
> the time. I cite basic strategy and indices
> when as I fall asleep. I check out BJ
> websites every day, several times a day. I
> make spreadsheets to prove BS, support
> indices, determine "normal"
> variances, and just about anything else I
> can simulate or calculate. I've practiced
> for hundreds of hours. I can count down a
> deck in 20 seconds. I play out an 8 deck
> shoe at my kitchen table (making and paying
> bets) and rarely am I off by more than two
> RC points.

> I'm just a beginner - maybe 60 hours under
> my belt. I decided to go play on a
> school-night. I told my wife I'll be home
> around midnight, but feel free to call the
> police at 3:00am if I'm not home yet. Well
> guess what? At midnight I was down 50 units
> (I spread 1 to 10 units). I felt great,
> casino conditions were good, and I'd rather
> go home with a profit, so I kept playing.

> Next thing I know, it's 3:30 (and I'm still
> down 50 units) . So I hit the road. When I
> walk in the door at 5:00, I'm greeted by my
> very thankful/livid wife. Ends up she DID
> call the police, she called the hospitals,
> she had me paged at the casino and was
> obviously up half the night.

> So do you think I have a problem - or does
> all this sound very familiar?

My short answer is a definite yes. While your "problem" may not have completely consumed your world, I think it is headed in that direction at close to the speed of light.

While others may disagree, I think your post is self-evident that you are placing BJ well above the things that should be most important in your life. First and foremost, your wife. At some point, your continued "consumption" may consume your marriage. While your wife may condone your actions at this point in time, no doubt, that over a period of time this will get very, very old, and bad things may follow.

Not berating you, but I think you need to have a sit down with the wife, and tell her what you told us. If she is willing to accept your "consumption", you may possibly continue with your obesession. Taking a night off from school was a big clue to me...at what point does school (and your goals) become less than important, and you begin to blow off more and more classes?

Furthermore, what happens if you nuke your bank, and with your "consumption", dig into household funds to play just one more shoe? How the hell will you dig yourself out of that hole?

You are wise to have acknowledged your "situation", and seeking advice from those you feel can most relate to your desires to play, namely us. We are but strangers in cyberspace, but many have walked where you are walking!

To toss in a personal note...I am retired. I have more than adequate discretionary income to pretty much do as I please. I am further blessed to be able to fly free, almost anywhere in the world. A flight to Vegas, Memphis, or Biloxi is as easy for me as going to WalMart. With some effort, I could probably move to Vegas. Having said this, I purposely limit my trips, and don't much think about living in Vegas. Why? I'd probably become a gaming freak, thinking, hey, I can pick up $500 a day and be loaded with dough.

I prefer instead to still feel the thrill of watching the Grand Canyon pass beneath my window, the Hoover Dam, and then the outskirts of Vegas with anticipation of a wonderful trip, full of excitement. Imagine working at Ben & Jerry's, at some point ice cream will become distasteful, UNLESS you can control your emotions, keep your values well focused, and overcome the consumption that now prevails between your ears.

BJ is a great game, fun to win at, and shitty to lose at. Do not allow your family to be destroyed by what could well be an addiction. Face your emotions, talk with your wife, take a deep breath, perhaps limit your sessions, and above all enjoy life.

Best wishes, and good luck!
Wildcard

[FLAPlayer]

> Don't say, "yes" just because I'm
> asking.

> I am consumed by BJ. I think about it all
> the time. I cite basic strategy and indices
> when as I fall asleep. I check out BJ
> websites every day, several times a day. I
> make spreadsheets to prove BS, support
> indices, determine "normal"
> variances, and just about anything else I
> can simulate or calculate. I've practiced
> for hundreds of hours. I can count down a
> deck in 20 seconds. I play out an 8 deck
> shoe at my kitchen table (making and paying
> bets) and rarely am I off by more than two
> RC points.

> I have a separare bank account for my 450
> unit bankroll. I bet 100% Kelley (actually
> 100% Kelly based on a 500 unit bankroll)

> I'm just a beginner - maybe 60 hours under
> my belt. I decided to go play on a
> school-night. I told my wife I'll be home
> around midnight, but feel free to call the
> police at 3:00am if I'm not home yet. Well
> guess what? At midnight I was down 50 units
> (I spread 1 to 10 units). I felt great,
> casino conditions were good, and I'd rather
> go home with a profit, so I kept playing.

> Next thing I know, it's 3:30 (and I'm still
> down 50 units) . So I hit the road. When I
> walk in the door at 5:00, I'm greeted by my
> very thankful/livid wife. Ends up she DID
> call the police, she called the hospitals,
> she had me paged at the casino and was
> obviously up half the night.

> So do you think I have a problem - or does
> all this sound very familiar?

> (I did learn this much - next time, I'm
> picking up the phone at 2:59am, waking up my
> sweetie, and letting her know I'm just fine
> and she can go back to bed.)

All advice given is right on target, my ex- wife got me into Blackjack, she has an MBA as was making $150K a year and we got divorced and she declard bankruptcy. Be careful, bet and play like Rush Limbaugh- very conservative!

[Mr. Ed]

> Taking a night off from school was a big
> clue to me...at what point does school (and
> your goals) become less than important, and
> you begin to blow off more and more classes?

Sorry for the confusion - I refer to Sun-Thu as "school nights". I have a full time job.

[Sun Runner]

> So do you think I have a problem - or does
> all this sound very familiar?

All the posts above have been very good; and discretion is certainly the better part of valor.

Mr. Ed and all of us need to be constantly vigilant in this area of our life as well as the others.

But he is posting on the beginners page. He's a beginner. As a beginner, were not we all a bit "consummed" in one way or another?

When I got my first computer (COMPAQ 286 30mg HD .. a real burner at the time!) the computer guy I hired to give me lessons said your first lesson is this .. "when you sit down to learn, put your watch in your pocket. It takes a while."

First night alone with the computer (no internet mind you, just the HD) my wife calls my office at 3:30AM .. "what are you doing!?" she says. You get the picture.

When I first started learning/playing BJ, it was kinda the same way.

Maybe that is all it is for Mr. Ed. He at least carved out a seperate BR. Come on, the first several times you played -was your BR and ROR a consideration? Probably not.

Wildcard said it very well -for 90% of us; it's a hobby. It needs to be enjoyed. And as Wildcard refrains from moving to Vegas, we each need to be vigilant about our own play.

Mr. Ed, like all of us, needs to keep it real with his wife and family. He does need to begin to learn and apply better money and time management.

Hopefully he will.