RayMetz100: When do you stand on 16 vs. 10? (6D KO)

[RayMetz100]

I play 6D, H17, DA2, DAS, SP3, NRSA, NS

On page 85 of my KO book, it says to stand on 16 vs. 10 when the RC is -4. On page 164, it says to stand when the RC is -8. Which is it?

The book doesn?t mention anything about my local rules, so it's likely that neither of them are correct. If anyone has the computed list for my exact game, it'd be great if you could share it.

Is there a paper I can order with all the sim results for this exact game? Since this is the game I play over 90% of the time, I'd love to have the optimal KO strategy.

Thanks,

Ray

[M]

-8 is the correct one. what the KO has is a rounded matrix, where all play deviations in the prefered strategy are set to either the IRC, Pivot Point or Key Count; in this case the latter (-4). i wouldn't worry too much about the full indices, for you are playing an unbalanced count, and playing efficiency means practically nothing. i would use the basic strategy given on page 28 with the DAS variations on the bottom of page 30. ignore the SR and just hit, don't worry about NRSA. for H17, just make these changes to the basic strategy: DD A,7 vs. 2; DD A,8 vs. 6, the rest will be ruled by the count (DD 11 vs. Ace). i would start wonging this game, entering the game at -1, and betting 12-16 units at counts of +12-+16 and higher. try to use a conservative ramp, but you won't beat the game without this spread. best of luck. i would advise practicing your counting with a software of some kind, SmartCards is cool and at a very good price.

M.

[Buick Riviera]

> I play 6D, H17, DA2, DAS, SP3, NRSA, NS

> On page 85 of my KO book, it says to stand
> on 16 vs. 10 when the RC is -4. On page 164,
> it says to stand when the RC is -8. Which is
> it?

I suspect you are comparing the Preferred Matrix with the Full Matrix. -4 is Preferred and -8 is the Full.

As the authors note "there is almost no gain" in going with the Full Matrix in the 6D game (KO 1st Ed., p. 93) so stick with -4 of the Preferred.

Buick

[RayMetz100]

> -8 is the correct one. what the KO has is a
> rounded matrix, where all play deviations in
> the preferred strategy are set to either the
> IRC, Pivot Point or Key Count; in this case
> the latter (-4).

That makes perfect sense. I'll use -8 for now then, until I find the exact correct count for my particular H17, DAS game.

> i would use the
> basic strategy given on page 28 with the DAS
> variations on the bottom of page 30. ignore
> the SR and just hit, don't worry about NRSA.
> for H17, just make these changes to the
> basic strategy: DD A,7 vs. 2; DD A,8 vs. 6,
> the rest will be ruled by the count (DD 11
> vs. Ace).

I've already played 90% of my games (2500+ hands) with those three doubles, so it should be easy to continue it. At what count do I stop doubling 11 vs. A? Since I've only just learned Insurance and 16 vs. 10 strategy, wouldn't the rest of the I18 plays be more important than the 11 vs. A, or does that play fall somewhere in the middle?

> I would start wonging this game,
> entering the game at -1, and betting 12-16
> units at counts of +12-+16 and higher. try
> to use a conservative ramp, but you won't
> beat the game without this spread.

At the 2 casinos I play at, there is only one busy $3 table in each. Both tables are typically either full or empty. For now, the only wonging I'm going to be doing is bathroom breaks on horrible shoes. I'm not experienced enough to know weather the pit is watching me, but if they were, I doubt they'd let me just wong in with big bets like that. It'd be way too obvious. Plus, they know me fairly well by now, and it would be a huge departure from my past play of flat betting $3 through every shoe.

> i would advise practicing your
> counting with a software of some kind,
> SmartCards is cool and at a very good price.

I prefer to practice at the table with other players. This is a hobby for me, and I like to spend time with other people around, rather than being home alone. I liken that advice to telling an alcoholic that he'd save money by drinking alone at home, rather than at the bar. Yes it would save money, but it lowers the quality of life. For example, when the $3 blackjack table is empty, I actually go sit at the fullest pai gow table, betting minimums until I see someone over at the Blackjack table again. Going heads up against the dealer is about as fun as playing Blackjack on my computer. It's tedious and boring. The social aspect of the game is my favorite part.

Ray

[SOTSOG]

> I've already played 90% of my games (2500+
> hands) with those three doubles, so it
> should be easy to continue it. At what count
> do I stop doubling 11 vs. A? Since I've only
> just learned Insurance and 16 vs. 10
> strategy, wouldn't the rest of the I18 plays
> be more important than the 11 vs. A, or does
> that play fall somewhere in the middle?

A,7 vs 2 -- A,8 vs 6 -- 11 vs A
Double down on all these hands at the same point in your count you would stand on 16 vs 10.

11 vs A is one of the I18 plays.
A,8 vs 6 is one of the 'catch 22' plays.

> At what count do I stop doubling 11 vs. A?
Don't double 11 vs A if the count is negative such that you would hit 16 vs 10. Otherwise, you always double. If the count is so high that you should take insurance, then you take insurance, and if the dealer doesn't have blackjack, you turn around and double down.

[M]

no, doubling any hand with the KO is always done at +4, no matter the number of decks. you should really forget about the Full matrix, this way you only need to learn two indices for all the plays in shoe games and three for hand held games (notice the IRC based indices do not apply to multiple deck games). learn the Ill. 18 in the book, and the Surrender plays (which are also +4). you won't find an easier count than the KO. try to accept the value of heads-up play if you're in for serious money.

cheers.
M.

[SOTSOG]

A,8 vs 6 double is basic strategy for the game described.
A,7 vs 2 double is basic strategy for the game described.
11 vs A double is basic strategy for the game described.

I was suggesting that you should only double in what is known in balanced systems as a positive count (when you stand on 16 vs T). Now you are trying to say that you should wait until a +4?
I don't think so.

[M]

yes, if the count went negative enough, you would never make any of those three double downs. as with all play deviations there is frame to what basic strategy suggests. i was just trying to make it simpler for old ray since 11 vs Ace is worth more than the other two. in fact, he really need not even bother with the H17 changes.

M.

[RayMetz100]