RayMetz100: learning to count at the $3 table

[RayMetz100]

I read my first two BJ books last weekend, Scoblete's Best Blackjack and the KO book. After about 5-10 runs through a deck of cards by myself, I finally ended up with the same count 3 times in a row. Since I've been practicing my basic strategy at the local table with $3 flat bets, I decided to try out my new counting skill there as well. Each of the few times I tried to count the cards, the dealer defiantly noticed I was spacing off. I?d sit there with my King and 9 in front of me and forget to wave my hand. The dealer chuckled and made a little joke at me.

I realize that I may never be a counter. I don?t have any interest in spending even 30 minutes a day practicing alone with a deck of cards. If I practice at all, it will be with the dealer and the other players at the $3 table. Do you have any tips on how I can best use my practice time in front of the dealer? I play about 2-3 nights a week for about an hour and a half doing $3 flat bets. If that?s an average of 300 hands a week, I?m losing an average of $10 per week. If I never learn to count and always lose $10 per week, it?s ok. I?m still having fun for now.

I was thinking of maybe just counting my cards only, until I can do that without spacing off. Then count only mine and the dealers. Then mine, the dealers, and the guy next to me. Something like that. Of course, the whole time, I?d be just flat betting and not even think of raising my bet until I?m counting all of the cards. Will that help me learn faster, or is there another suggestion?

Thanks,

Ray

[SOTSOG]

You might try just standing back and watching a full table play and counting. Then you are getting most of the 'casino experience' while counting, and it is not costing you anything.

Counting is a lot like learning to ride a bike. At first you are really shaky and you fall down a lot and skin your knee. You think riding a bike is real hard and you will never learn how to do it. But with some practice at first, riding a bike (and counting) becomes second nature and you do it without even thinking about it. It is no longer hard.

Since you have stated that you are strictly a recreational player -- Think about this. Suppose you were winning $10 to $20 a week, instead of losing, plus getting all your comp and recreation benefits? That might give you some motivation to practice.

[RayMetz100]

> You might try just standing back and
> watching a full table play and counting.
> Then you are getting most of the 'casino
> experience' while counting, and it is not
> costing you anything.

I don't mind paying to play at all. In my log of 9 outings, 10.5 hours, and 640 hands, I've lost a total of $19.50 so far in playing and made $60 back in comps. I only value my comps based on how much I would have paid for the dinner anyway. So far, I've made more money playing than I would by just watching. If I added in the money I would have spent on drinks, had I not been gambling, then it would be way more.

> Counting is a lot like learning to ride a
> bike. At first you are really shaky and you
> fall down a lot and skin your knee. You
> think riding a bike is real hard and you
> will never learn how to do it. But with some
> practice at first, riding a bike (and
> counting) becomes second nature and you do
> it without even thinking about it. It is no
> longer hard.

Good advice. I'll try to stick with it.

> Since you have stated that you are strictly
> a recreational player -- Think about this.
> Suppose you were winning $10 to $20 a week,
> instead of losing, plus getting all your
> comp and recreation benefits? That might
> give you some motivation to practice.

I have a great day job, so weather I spend $15 or make another $15 doesn?t really matter to me. I'm more interested in getting max fun for my time or fun for $$, rather than max $$ for my time.

Any more hints for learning to count while at the table playing?

[Parker]

> I realize that I may never be a counter. I
> don?t have any interest in spending even 30
> minutes a day practicing alone with a deck
> of cards. If I practice at all, it will be
> with the dealer and the other players at the
> $3 table.

I think you may be right. Counting is not difficult, but it takes a great deal of practice to learn. In order to be effective, it must be done on a near-subconscious level.

It is necessary to first learn the procedures with no distractions, then learn to do it with the distractions inherent in the casino environment.

When I first started learning KO (after being a basic strategy player for nearly 20 years), I spent approximately two months practicing at least two hours a day before I tried it in a casino. I spend about half my practice time with software such as Casino Verite and the KO software, and the rest just counting down decks.

Despite that, I crashed and burned the first few times I tried to count in the casino environment. I started playing on a near-daily basis, while still practicing about an hour a day. After a couple more months, I finally felt comfortable counting while talking to the dealer, asking the pitboss for a comp, flirting with the CW, etc.

About a year and a half ago I decided to move up to a level two count, the Unbalanced Zen II. Despite a three month break while I practiced this count several hours per day, I was still very shaky when I started using it in a casino. It took me nearly a year to get to where I am now, confident that I have it completely mastered.

Counting is not difficult, but it takes a great deal of practice to learn. If you are not willing to put in the hours, perhaps counting is not for you.

And there is nothing wrong with that. The casinos would be pretty scary if everyone was counting cards. :-)

Many people are happy to play perfect basic strategy, deliberately pick slow-moving games and essentially try to minimize their losses and maximize their comps. With good games and a casino that is easy with comps (it sounds like you have found one) this can even have a positive expectation.

[SOTSOG]

Learn to look at the cards in groups of two.
A high card and a low card cancel each other out and equals 0. Ignore them both.

Two high cards in one hand and Two low cards in another equals 0. Ignore all four.

By pairing cards together, you are kind of doing half the work of counting them one by one. Try flipping thru a deck two cards at a time, instead of one by one. You will probably find it much easier once you recognize the combinations.

H=high card
N=neutral card
L=low card

HH = -2
HN = -1
NH = -1
NN = 0
HL = 0
LH = 0
LN = +1
NL = +1
LL = +2

[Moose]

Ray,

if all you do is flatbet, play basic strategy and make a very FEW count-based decisions (waving 16 vs 10 or 12 vs 4 if there are more low cards on the table than high cards), between the comps and the very small edge you give the casino, you will very likely be playing a break-even game, where if you flat bet $X dollars per hand, you will on average only lose $X dollars every three or four hours, and get that back in comps.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

M.

[jeffc]

> I was thinking of maybe just counting my
> cards only, until I can do that without
> spacing off. Then count only mine and the
> dealers. Then mine, the dealers, and the guy
> next to me. Something like that. Of course,
> the whole time, I?d be just flat betting and
> not even think of raising my bet until I?m
> counting all of the cards. Will that help me
> learn faster, or is there another
> suggestion?

I think that's fine, but I'd do it a little differently. First, what I'd do is sit at third base, or close. Instead of counting your cards, count the cards of the person at first base. This will give you maximum time and reduce your stress. Later, count the person next to him too.

Second, even if you're just counting some cards, that will *still* improve your odds. Let's say you're at a table with 4 players plus the dealer, and you're counting the cards of 2 players. Instead of raising your bet when the count goes to +2 (or whatever), raise when it goes to +4 instead. This way it will be easy to count, and there will be little stress because you won't actually be raising your bet or making different strategy plays very often, but you'll still be playing with an advantage or at least about even.

[Steephen]

> I think that's fine, but I'd do it a little
> differently. First, what I'd do is sit at
> third base, or close. Instead of counting
> your cards, count the cards of the person at
> first base. This will give you maximum time
> and reduce your stress. Later, count the
> person next to him too.

> Second, even if you're just counting some
> cards, that will *still* improve your odds.
> Let's say you're at a table with 4 players
> plus the dealer, and you're counting the
> cards of 2 players. Instead of raising your
> bet when the count goes to +2 (or whatever),
> raise when it goes to +4 instead. This way
> it will be easy to count, and there will be
> little stress because you won't actually be
> raising your bet or making different
> strategy plays very often, but you'll still
> be playing with an advantage or at least
> about even.

Jeff,
Go somewhere that they have a CSM and just sit there and watch the game. They don't care, you can wander from table to table. You can get to where you count with a slow dealer and then move up to faster and faster dealers. I used to drop a token in a machine or place a pass bet on the craps table every now and then just to look like a gambler. The confidence that you have when you are in a real casino keeping up with the count of the fastest dealer with all the bells and whistles and distractions of a casino makes it easy to transition to playing. PS practice at home and take it to the casinos every once in a while to accesss how you are doing.

[jeffc]

> Any more hints for learning to count while
> at the table playing?

You've read that much of the advantage you can gain comes not from skill, but from picking the best conditions - rules, decks, penetration, etc. Well, pick tables with slower dealers.