Jack Fate: Indiana riverboats.

[Jack Fate]

Can anyone provide a quick overview of conditions/games in this region. I'll be in Cincy on business next week and would like to get in some play. Just would like to know if games are playable or should be avoided. Thanks.

[SOTSOG]

Avoid the Argosy. Admission Fee to board the boat, 8 deck shoes, crowded tables, high minimums.

30 - 40 mins. down the road, the Grand Vic and Belterra offer better pen 6 deck shoes.

[sam]

The games at any of the three you mentioned are about as different as choosing to be stabbed by a dull knife or a sharp one. Either way you're still stabbed.

> Avoid the Argosy. Admission Fee to board the
> boat, 8 deck shoes, crowded tables, high
> minimums.

> 30 - 40 mins. down the road, the Grand Vic
> and Belterra offer better pen 6 deck shoes.

[Anonymous]

I can't believe I'm disagreeing with SOTSOG, but unless there's been a very recent change at Belterra, I am. The last time I was at Belterra, they had four high-limit 6D tables and one low-limit "21+3" 6D table with pen of 2.0 (sometimes as bad as 2.5 on the high-limit tables). Their other BJ tables were 5D CSMs and 8D shoes with pen of 2.0. At slow times, the majority of open BJ tables were CSMs.

While Argosy usually is crowded, all of the BJ tables on the 3rd deck (the main deck) are 6D (the ones on the 2nd deck are 8D). The average pen on both 6D and 8D is 1.7-1.8, and more favorable pen can be had with a little shopping (there are far more BJ tables to choose from than there are at Belterra).

If I didn't receive comped admission with my player's card, I'd much rather pay $5 to get into Argosy than to drive out of the way to Belterra for the lousy games they offered on my last visit. All things considered, Grand Vic is probably the best (i.e., least bad) choice of the three currently.

> Avoid the Argosy. Admission Fee to board the
> boat, 8 deck shoes, crowded tables, high
> minimums.

> 30 - 40 mins. down the road, the Grand Vic
> and Belterra offer better pen 6 deck shoes.

[sam]

I agree that Argosy is a better play than Belterra for the reasons you cite. Plus Belterra goes to shallower pen and flat betting if a player has a "streak". But I disagree with you about GV. Grand Vic does the same as Belterra if a player is showing much of a profit.

> I can't believe I'm disagreeing with SOTSOG,
> but unless there's been a very recent change
> at Belterra, I am. The last time I was at
> Belterra, they had four high-limit 6D tables
> and one low-limit "21+3" 6D table
> with pen of 2.0 (sometimes as bad as 2.5 on
> the high-limit tables). Their other BJ
> tables were 5D CSMs and 8D shoes with pen of
> 2.0. At slow times, the majority of open BJ
> tables were CSMs.

> While Argosy usually is crowded, all of the
> BJ tables on the 3rd deck (the main deck)
> are 6D (the ones on the 2nd deck are 8D).
> The average pen on both 6D and 8D is
> 1.7-1.8, and more favorable pen can be had
> with a little shopping (there are far more
> BJ tables to choose from than there are at
> Belterra).

> If I didn't receive comped admission with my
> player's card, I'd much rather pay $5 to get
> into Argosy than to drive out of the way to
> Belterra for the lousy games they offered on
> my last visit. All things considered, Grand
> Vic is probably the best (i.e., least bad)
> choice of the three currently.

[SOTSOG]

Last time I was at Argosy, they had switched EVERYTHING to 8 decks. Maybe the 3rd deck $25 tables are back to 6 deckers. It doesn't matter, the place is so crowded, wonging is impossible, which is the way to play shoes.

It is true -- Grand Vic and Belterra are in a neck-and-neck race as to who can sweat the money more, and counter-measure a winner faster. They are both lousy grind joints and will try to screw you every chance they get.

The $25 6 deck shoes in the high limit room at Belterra is what I was referring too.

If I had my choice of comp room and food, I would rather use it at Belterra, Argosy, and then Grand Vic.

[sam]

You're right there. Belterra may be the nicest place on the river to enjoy comps. SOTSOG, what's your take on Caesars games?

> Last time I was at Argosy, they had switched
> EVERYTHING to 8 decks. Maybe the 3rd deck
> $25 tables are back to 6 deckers. It doesn't
> matter, the place is so crowded, wonging is
> impossible, which is the way to play shoes.

> It is true -- Grand Vic and Belterra are in
> a neck-and-neck race as to who can sweat the
> money more, and counter-measure a winner
> faster. They are both lousy grind joints and
> will try to screw you every chance they get.

> The $25 6 deck shoes in the high limit room
> at Belterra is what I was referring too.

> If I had my choice of comp room and food, I
> would rather use it at Belterra, Argosy, and
> then Grand Vic.

[SOTSOG]

I'm there primarily for poker, but this is what I have noticed.

They have some type of computer screen tracking system at the tables, didn't 'cozy' up with a pit critter to investigate any further. I suspect this is just a computer enhanced touch screen replacement for the pen and paper rating cards, don't know if there is messaging capabilities from security, or what kind of history they can pull up on a player.

S17, DOA, DAS, NRSA 6 decks.
Looks like they cut to a slot on the shoe. About 1 1/2 decks.
Decent game. 2 $5 tables over the weekend, plenty of $10 tables.

The pits are spread out, and over 4 floors. Unlike most riverboats, you are not elbow to elbow with every available inch crammed full with stuff. There is actually room to move around. The BJ pits are mingled with craps tables, etc. so there are a lot of "islands" of BJ tables, so I assume you can jump from pit to pit and floor to floor to avoid heat.

I saw good wonging situations, as you could hang around and easily observe action at nearby BJ tables. AMC classic movie channel was broadcast on TVs everywhere, so "watch" a movie then hop in and out of a game. Then hop to another floor and repeat jumping in. Crowds were moderately light Saturday Afternoon, Sunday was surprisingly busy.

Each floor has 1 double deck pitch game. $25-$1000 limits. Pen was 50% if that, sometimes 55%. S17 - D9,10,11 - NDAS - SPL1 - No mid shoe entry. In high roller room I was able to jump $25 - $150 without even a checks play call, and never played the last hand before the shuffle if count was negative. No eyebrows raised, no indication anyone cared. I assume if you got heat, it would be easy to disappear and reappear on another floor's game.

Good Food -- Coffee Shop outside casino is better than Starbucks coffee. When you get comped, tell them you need it for 2 other people, as prices are outrageous, you need a 2 person comp to properly feed 1.

Why do people park in the parking garage? Valet parking is free and much more easier. If you can't get a room at the casino, the Ramada Inn on 71 in Louisville has a weekend rate of $67, rooms are decent, place is nice, and free breakfast in the morning.

[Anonymous]

> Last time I was at Argosy, they had switched
> EVERYTHING to 8 decks. Maybe the 3rd deck
> $25 tables are back to 6 deckers. It doesn't
> matter, the place is so crowded, wonging is
> impossible, which is the way to play shoes.

All of the 3rd deck BJ tables at Argosy are presently 6D. There are always $15 tables on the 3rd deck, and there are sometimes $10 tables. Wonging is difficult, however. When was it ever all 8D?

> The $25 6 deck shoes in the high limit room
> at Belterra is what I was referring too.

They haven't started allowing mid-shoe entry on those, have they? In fact, I thought they even quit alllowing spreading to two hands during the shoe several months ago. Is that true?

[Anonymous]

> They have some type of computer screen
> tracking system at the tables, didn't 'cozy'
> up with a pit critter to investigate any
> further. I suspect this is just a computer
> enhanced touch screen replacement for the
> pen and paper rating cards, don't know if
> there is messaging capabilities from
> security, or what kind of history they can
> pull up on a player.

If there is a CC or similar notation on your account, it does show up on the touch screen when the floor supervisor swipes your card.

[sam]

Very good and accurate report. Heat is very strange at Caesars. I've seen them cut half the shoe on 6D on a non-counting big bettors and leave known counters alone. I think they've got so much business, counters hardly matter to them. It is big and you can move around. I haven't used wonging the way I should there. Thanks again for your take on things.

> I'm there primarily for poker, but this is
> what I have noticed.

> They have some type of computer screen
> tracking system at the tables, didn't 'cozy'
> up with a pit critter to investigate any
> further. I suspect this is just a computer
> enhanced touch screen replacement for the
> pen and paper rating cards, don't know if
> there is messaging capabilities from
> security, or what kind of history they can
> pull up on a player.

> S17, DOA, DAS, NRSA 6 decks.
> Looks like they cut to a slot on the shoe.
> About 1 1/2 decks.
> Decent game. 2 $5 tables over the weekend,
> plenty of $10 tables.

> The pits are spread out, and over 4 floors.
> Unlike most riverboats, you are not elbow to
> elbow with every available inch crammed full
> with stuff. There is actually room to move
> around. The BJ pits are mingled with craps
> tables, etc. so there are a lot of
> "islands" of BJ tables, so I
> assume you can jump from pit to pit and
> floor to floor to avoid heat.

> I saw good wonging situations, as you could
> hang around and easily observe action at
> nearby BJ tables. AMC classic movie channel
> was broadcast on TVs everywhere, so
> "watch" a movie then hop in and
> out of a game. Then hop to another floor and
> repeat jumping in. Crowds were moderately
> light Saturday Afternoon, Sunday was
> surprisingly busy.

> Each floor has 1 double deck pitch game.
> $25-$1000 limits. Pen was 50% if that,
> sometimes 55%. S17 - D9,10,11 - NDAS - SPL1
> - No mid shoe entry. In high roller room I
> was able to jump $25 - $150 without even a
> checks play call, and never played the last
> hand before the shuffle if count was
> negative. No eyebrows raised, no indication
> anyone cared. I assume if you got heat, it
> would be easy to disappear and reappear on
> another floor's game.

> Good Food -- Coffee Shop outside casino is
> better than Starbucks coffee. When you get
> comped, tell them you need it for 2 other
> people, as prices are outrageous, you need a
> 2 person comp to properly feed 1.

> Why do people park in the parking garage?
> Valet parking is free and much more easier.
> If you can't get a room at the casino, the
> Ramada Inn on 71 in Louisville has a weekend
> rate of $67, rooms are decent, place is
> nice, and free breakfast in the morning.

[ETZ]

Thanks for all the info. I'm pretty new here and live in the middle Ohio area. What do you all think the best game within 3-4 hours of Ohio is?

Thanks in advance for the feedback.

> All of the 3rd deck BJ tables at Argosy are
> presently 6D. There are always $15 tables on
> the 3rd deck, and there are sometimes $10
> tables. Wonging is difficult, however. When
> was it ever all 8D?

> They haven't started allowing mid-shoe entry
> on those, have they? In fact, I thought they
> even quit alllowing spreading to two hands
> during the shoe several months ago. Is that
> true?

[SOTSOG]

> Thanks for all the info. I'm pretty new here
> and live in the middle Ohio area. What do
> you all think the best game within 3-4 hours
> of Ohio is?

> Thanks in advance for the feedback.

I don't know about 3-4 hours, but out of Columbus,
SouthWest airlines can put you in Vegas, non-stop in about 5 hours. fly in - play all night - fly out the next morning.