Ouchez: The cat is now out of the bag!

[Ouchez]

certain posters are now drawing attention to and complaining loudly about the use of clouded or "blinded" discard trays.

A number of weeks ago I even hinted to a certain poster about not mentioning the use of this particular style discard tray, but to no avail, I should have been more to the point, it now appears. (But now it is to late).

I have been aware of these for years but have never spoken of them for fear of giving intelligence to the Kasino about their potential effectivness, (very effective), in foiling counters in the TC conversion.

I think now they may begin to be very popular with Kasino managment as it is now clear that advantage players despise them.

If you don't believe that just read a few recent posts.

Reading these posts, on these sites, is the cheapest and most timely vehicle for Kasino Mgmt. to gain intelligence.

The purchase of "blinded" discard trays is a very cheap counter action.

Remember, "Midwest Bro's and Sistah's", loose lip's sink ships.

Let us stop giving the Kasino clues to further foil our money makin opportunity.

[Coug Fan]

I don't understand why it is so difficult to keep track of the number of hands played. If you can't do this, then you could always just switch to an unbalanced count system.

If casino management really is stupid enough to believe that these things foil card counters, then I would welcome them from a cover perspective. Maybe the casino's will start dealing to 95% pen to avoid shuffle downtime now that they don't need to worry about card counters.

Of course, as Don always says, you should never underestimate the stupidity of casino management. Well,we can always hope that they go for this.

[Milk Man]

Let them do what they want. It gives them the false security that makes them think they foiled counters. So instead of tracking discard just keep track of the rounds. It is less convenient but I love the false sense of security the casino managers get. May be there should be Casino Dilbert cartoons. Hey pit bosses, do all you can the Milk Man is still going to squeeze nickles out of your teets as long as the deviation dog is not around.

[Brick]

You're assuming the "Monkey see,Monkey do" act will follow. If this were the case casinos have had 40 years to follow the monkey. They have had plenty of time to hide all cards and go to all CSMS. It would have already happened years ago,no?

The cat has always been out of the bag, but casinos have simply chased it away.

Let's face it, the public enjoys traditional blackjack and casinos are making billions$$ from them. Blackjack is (by far) the most popular casino table game and keeps growing in popularity. Why would all casinos cover their bread with dirt when they already have it buttered?

Actually hiding cards can be beneficial to a card counter and good cover. The pit and surveillance will never know how many cards have been dealt or or when it's time to shuffle. They will be clueless. Dealers can offer a great game.
Not only will the cards be "blind" but so will surveillance.

> If you don't believe that just read a few
> recent posts.

What post,I dont see any?

Brick

> If you don't believe that just read a few
> recent posts.

> certain posters are now drawing attention to
> and complaining loudly about the use of
> clouded or "blinded" discard
> trays.

> A number of weeks ago I even hinted to a
> certain poster about not mentioning the use
> of this particular style discard tray, but
> to no avail, I should have been more to the
> point, it now appears. (But now it is to
> late).

> I have been aware of these for years but
> have never spoken of them for fear of giving
> intelligence to the Kasino about their
> potential effectivness, (very effective), in
> foiling counters in the TC conversion.

> I think now they may begin to be very
> popular with Kasino managment as it is now
> clear that advantage players despise them.

> If you don't believe that just read a few
> recent posts.

> Reading these posts, on these sites, is the
> cheapest and most timely vehicle for Kasino
> Mgmt. to gain intelligence.

> The purchase of "blinded" discard
> trays is a very cheap counter action.

> Remember, "Midwest Bro's and
> Sistah's", loose lip's sink ships.

> Let us stop giving the Kasino clues to
> further foil our money makin opportunity.

[Ouchez]

> You're assuming the "Monkey see,Monkey
> do" act will follow. If this were the
> case casinos have had 40 years to follow the
> monkey. They have had plenty of time to hide
> all cards and go to all CSMS. It would have
> already happened years ago,no?

> The cat has always been out of the bag, but
> casinos have simply chased it away.

> Let's face it, the public enjoys traditional
> blackjack and casinos are making billions$$
> from them. Blackjack is (by far) the most
> popular casino table game and keeps growing
> in popularity. Why would all casinos cover
> their bread with dirt when they already have
> it buttered?

> Actually hiding cards can be beneficial to a
> card counter and good cover. The pit and
> surveillance will never know how many cards
> have been dealt or or when it's time to
> shuffle. They will be clueless. Dealers can
> offer a great game.
> Not only will the cards be "blind"
> but so will surveillance.

> What post,I dont see any?

> Brick

I know in a 6d game I cannot play a performance game and keep track of number of hands played, too much else going on. Not to say others like scobee or the Wizard can't, or even the Brick.

That was a good point though about the unbalanced system, such as KO.

[Electric Kid]

> I know in a 6d game I cannot play a
> performance game and keep track of number of
> hands played, too much else going on.

With an average of 2.7 cards per hand try just tracking the rounds played. For example if there are 4 players and dealer a round will use approx a quarter deck. 4 rounds and a deck is gone. 5 players and dealer use about a third of a deck per round.

[RP]

> With an average of 2.7 cards per hand try
> just tracking the rounds played. For example
> if there are 4 players and dealer a round
> will use approx a quarter deck. 4 rounds and
> a deck is gone. 5 players and dealer use
> about a third of a deck per round.

However, even that would get rather tricky when the number of players changes during a shoe. Even in no mid-shoe entry games, you would still have to deal with players leaving and/or changing the number of hands played.

[ET Fan]

Here's what you do. Get one of those watches with a count down timer. Time how long it takes your dealer to plow through X decks. Divide minutes/X and you have approximate minutes per deck of penetration.

Most dealers are fairly consistent. The principle is that cards dealt per minute is almost constant, regardless of the number of players. You can prove this by looking closely at Wong's numbers for rounds per hour. A problem comes when the speed of the PLAYERS changes radically, at your table. Time to recalibrate.

Norm W. has pointed out that TC conversion really doesn't need to be as accurate as we assume.

Some refinements come to mind, such as stopping the count down when some unusual situation takes a lot of time. Memorize the count down at a couple of important points, such as when three decks remain, or two.

I'm sure these goombahs at Harrah's are laughing at the absurdity of anyone wanting to count down their crappy game. The shields are just a minor inconvenience, compared to the lousy conditions. EVEN SHUFFLEMASTER USES GLASS SO YOU CAN SEE WTF IS GOING ON!

Tell all your friends. Smart players just say NO to Harrah's.

I can't wait to see them start confiscating watches as "illegal devices." It might happen. These guys wouldn't know PR if it bit them in the assets.

ETF

[Sun Runner]

[scobee 1]

> Tell all your friends. Smart players just
> say NO to Harrah's.

Hello, ETF. "Harrah's Joliet: Just Say NO!'

I do have one word of advice for my other friends, since you understandably refuse to play there. The word is 'backcounting.' The pen is more variable there than before since they added their game security accessories from the Griffin gaming supply warehouse. Instead of giving yourself a headache or risk having your watch confiscated as evidence of advantage play, use the time-tested ultimate edge. Play only positive EV hands. I observed a RC of +14 after approximately one deck and jumped in with both feet. Five minutes late I colored up on a neutral count with a nice $400 win.

They have no restrictions on backcounting and the pit is complacent due to their recent high technology counter measures. A S17, RSA, game at 4.5 is certainly beatable when you only play high EV hands.

God I hate that place. Total time spent in hands observed was a half an hour.

> I can't wait to see them start confiscating
> watches as "illegal devices." It
> might happen. These guys wouldn't know PR if
> it bit them in the assets.

My favorite irony is their recent promotion of "'Harrah' s puts the 'A" in service." As Jojo would say, 'Harrah's is a dump.'

scobee