Ouchez: New attack method for DD game

[Viktor Nacht]

> No, what Parker said was "The casino
> lets you play because you are playing like
> an idiot". Parker does not describe
> his play as idiotic...there is a difference.
> Clearly name-calling, no?

I find that interpretation far fetched, but one person already agrees with you, so there may be something to it. But, if someone walked up to Ian Andersen and said "You play like an Asian," I would assume he would take that as a description characterizing his play, not him personally.

The impersonal nature of textual communication requires a thicker skin due to the higher probabability of misinterpretation. And if you softened the language, to say "You're playing in an ineffectual manner," by your interpretation we're calling that person ineffectual, period.

> Well man, I certainly don't won't to be
> thought of as having an Eliot Jacobson
> persona. I do take umbrage at not honoring
> established rules. If we can have no
> discourse to clear the air, and you stand by
> your statement then perhaps it is better we
> part company.

RE: The Mayor crack, I was just having some dry fun with you, poking fun at your persisence. But again, lighten up. You're more than welcome to play policy cop, and if people agree with you then you've done everyone a service, and if they don't then you might be wrong.

We do are best to leave no player behind. It would be a shame to see you go, and I would hope you might try a tactic other than picking up your toys and going home to accomplish your goals.

Good Cards,

V

[Ouchez]

> Ouchez, your system sounds similar to one I
> read about a while ago called the
> "JaKal" system, which also is
> designed for DD games. Is it something you
> have heard of before? I believe it was also
> designed for some of the quirks of Indian
> casinos.

> Regards,

> BT

Thank You BT,

I remember the "JaKal" was for mediocre 6d games.

Yes these ideas are for the quirks of the Indian casinos where I play.

Some quirks are very good, one not so good, when playing heads up it forces me to do 2 spots even in - play which I am very uncomfortable with.

Thus I came up with the play variation.

I have no sim for it but I will be simming it in real time play and am very much looking forward to it!

You should come up and play sometime, not that far from where you live and the game is better than most in Vegas.

Two of the team members, "The Midwest Masters Of BJ" just got back from Vegas and did not find a game as good....all things considered. ^_^

Thanks for not making fun of me or calling me derogatory names. I think this shows that you are a man satisfied with who you are and at peace with yourself, Itatanay.

[Ouchez]

> I find that interpretation far fetched, but
> one person already agrees with you, so there
> may be something to it. But, if someone
> walked up to Ian Andersen and said "You
> play like an Asian," I would assume he
> would take that as a description
> characterizing his play, not him personally.

> The impersonal nature of textual
> communication requires a thicker skin due to
> the higher probabability of
> misinterpretation. And if you softened the
> language, to say "You're playing in an
> ineffectual manner," by your
> interpretation we're calling that person
> ineffectual, period.

> RE: The Mayor crack, I was just having some
> dry fun with you, poking fun at your
> persisence. But again, lighten up. You're
> more than welcome to play policy cop, and if
> people agree with you then you've done
> everyone a service, and if they don't then
> you might be wrong.

> We do are best to leave no player behind. It
> would be a shame to see you go, and I would
> hope you might try a tactic other than
> picking up your toys and going home to
> accomplish your goals.

> Good Cards,

> V

I found that statement by Parker to be hurtful and personally disturbing to me.

I think this may be the second time he has called me the "I" word.

I have a unique circumstance I am trying to overcome in this particular game and look for input not ridicule. I have put in many hundreds of hours playing this particular game and do very good heads up but desire to do even better. I feel that they are forcing me to play two spots and I want to break that in the - situation .

[Wildcard]

> I find that interpretation far fetched, but
> one person already agrees with you, so there
> may be something to it.

Viktor, please! We are now beating a dead horse. I don't need for another poster to validate what my perceptions are or were...I'm a big boy and can stand on my own. I appreciate the observations of K-O Joe and enjoy his posts as well, however, that should not be the impetus that gives you the impulse that "there may be something to it"

Have you not already taken the stand that Parker called his playing idiotic v calling Ouchez and idiot, and that there was no name calling? So, why, when another poster supports me would you attempt some wiggle room and consider recanting? Won't fly.

> But, if someone
> walked up to Ian Andersen and said "You
> play like an Asian," I would assume he
> would take that as a description
> characterizing his play, not him personally.

Totally irrelevant, let us stay on point. If we'd kicked Saddam's ass in '91 we wouldn't be in the shit we're in today! Irrelevant, we didn't kick his ass, and we're now stuck with a horrible mess.

Besides, being told you "play like an Asian" v "you play like an idiot" is light years apart!! Doesn't bother me when they holler "monkey, monkey", or always stand on 16. Doesn't bother me when they give me shit about how I play, at some point I tell them what I think of their comments!!

> The impersonal nature of textual
> communication requires a thicker skin due to
> the higher probabability of
> misinterpretation. And if you softened the
> language, to say "You're playing in an
> ineffectual manner," by your
> interpretation we're calling that person
> ineffectual, period.

Thus is the duty of the moderator or whatever title you want to hang on the host! This person, above all should have the thickest skin of all...and if he/she is being pissed off something royal by a doofus post that is beyond moronic then that person needs to find the correct tenor to deal with this "challenged" poster. I don't think Ouchez is an idiot, his thoughts are pretty stupid, and he was told so...for Parker to diss him as he did was out of line...you know it, and so do I.

> RE: The Mayor crack, I was just having some
> dry fun with you, poking fun at your
> persisence. But again, lighten up. You're
> more than welcome to play policy cop, and if
> people agree with you then you've done
> everyone a service, and if they don't then
> you might be wrong.

Sorry, I'm nowhere near the likes of Eliot Jacobson...a pesonal friend of yours would hopefully vouch for my personality. I didn't think it was humor or dry fun...otherwise I may have made a John Patrick statement towards you!

No, I have no desire to be policy cop!! You should be thankful that once in a while you guys get called on something...should make you take some WD-40 and spray the wheels. BUT it is the board policy! NO NAME CALLING.

We do are best to leave no player behind. It
> would be a shame to see you go, and I would
> hope you might try a tactic other than
> picking up your toys and going home to
> accomplish your goals.

Viktor...I'm well grounded in life. I'm retired after 31.5 years of bullshit with the Feds. I am blessed to fly free anywhere in the world. I am RFB at Mirage and the Beau. My wife and I have been through some tough times, but have managed to put the train back on the track. My biggest concern right now is what to put in my suitcase to avoid setting off the bells in the morning as we head to Vegas.

I have personal knowledge that you, and Parker are good and decent folk. I resent being called to the carpet when I make a statement that attempts to merely bring to someone's attention that I think someone got shit on. I have NO desire to be a pain in the ass to anyone...by the same token, I again take umbrage at being measured to the Mayor (fun or not), and that I am basically taken to the wood shed for not agreeing with the status quo, or party line.

I think Parker could easily have posted something along the lines of a recant. Saying "I'm sorry" in cyberspace takes balls...I've done it twice on BJ21 because I woke up and realized I was indeed wrong. Takes a strong man to pony up to the keyboard and finally hit the enter key, but sometimes it's what you gotta do to show what you're made of!

My goals? I just want to be healthy and happy in life...share some good stuff along the way and buy a new Z06 Corvette one day.

Again, I am not here to upset anyone's apple cart, or piss off the world. When you allow a totally subjective atmosphere to permeate an open forum, perhaps this is the end result.

If you're gonna have some policies, for God's sake, the moderator, of all people should be the person who adheres most to them...no stretching, no spinning. After all, they are HIS policies!! Why have policies if they're not going to be followed?

You are privy to personal email recently...do I sound like a nut case? Do I sound illogical?

I have included my email address (a rare event), should you care to "discuss" this off-site, I'd be glad to do so...AGAIN, I have no axe to grind, but I will not sit idly by when I see things I believe are wrong.

Will be back from Vegas late Friday.

Regards,
Wildcard

> Good Cards,

> V

[Parker]

I said, "The casino lets you play because you are playing like an idiot."

I'm sorry, but if I were to observe someone in a casino who consistantly stood on 12-15 vs dealer 7-A, I would be forced to conclude that that person was indeed, playing like an idiot.

I was less than tactful, but my patience is wearing thin. In an earlier thread you suggested that you were no longer gong to double down on eleven's because you always drew an ace.

You continue to ignore what is really the point of my concern:

If you are going to post something on these boards that flies in the face of 40 years of research on the game, please provide some mathmatical data or sims to support your theories.

Otherwise, they are nothing more than voodoo and have no place on this board.

[Viktor Nacht]

Dear Wildcard,

I don't really have to much to say, but you deserve some kind of response. I probably won't respond beyond this however, since I have a lot on my plate.

1. If we can agree that being called a John Patterson or an Eliot Jacobson is an insult, then I definitely apologize for that crack. Dry, affectionate ribbing doesn't always work on the Internet.

2. Applying such different meanings from the same syntax by changing the noun will never fly with me. "Like a" means "similiar to," not "you are." People do things that have certain attributes without being "that." If Ouchez backs up his claims with the proper references or proofs, then he deserves bragging rights. If he refuses to raise this to the level of objective logic, it's hard to take seriously, and doesn't add to the value of these forums.

3. How Parker and Electric Kid choose to resolve your criticism is up to them, and I trust their judgement. It might not be to your liking or even my liking, but I personally thank you for taking the time to care enough about these forums to be persistent.

Good Cards,

V

[Ouchez]

[Parker]

> I personally don't understand, nor have I
> taken the time to understand or evaluate the
> content of Ouchez's posts...simply doesn't
> interest me.

Then I suggest that you take a look at it. In it, he recommends playing a "no-bust" strategy in negative counts. That is, never hit a 12-16, no matter what the dealer is showing.

I'm sorry, but that fits my definition of "playing like an idiot." I do not feel that that is the same as saying, "You are an idiot." It was not meant that way.

I do not consider myself an idiot, yet I will readily admit that I have made idiotic plays on a few occasions.

> I do find it somewhat offensive that you
> (Parker) feel it necessary to refer to his
> playing like an idiot. Not only does it
> clearly violate your policies (noted above),
> it is beneath the dignity of this board and
> those who attempt to contribute and learn
> from one another.

> We may not all have the vast casino
> experiences you have, but when a new idea
> comes along, you need not crush it like some
> bug. If the poster's ideas are suspect and
> so irritating, why not contact him via
> private email with a caveat that continued
> postings will be deleted. Do you find it
> necessary to embarrass or humiliate the
> poster in public because you can, or because
> it's your site?

I cannot contact him via private e-mail - he has not provided an e-mail address, leaving me with no choice but to do it publicly.

> I have immense regard and respect for your
> knowledge and the effort it takes to
> maintain normalcy on this board...we have
> discussed this privately. Now that you
> openly called a poster an idiot, I elect to
> present my feelings in an open forum as
> well. You are not King Parker, and heavy
> handed tactics will not enhance one's
> willingness to continue to participate here,
> no matter how insane the gaming topic.

> Bust what you think you must, but have the
> common courtesy to not humiliate in public.
> See a trend?

> If you can, please explain how your comments
> to Ouchez do not violate your established
> policies, within which you hold our feet
> closely to the fire. Or, will you delete
> this as well?

See above.

In addition, in another thread, this poster was advocating not doubling on 11, another idea that strikes me as . . . never mind.

Furthemore, I have repeatedly asked this poster to provide some sort of sims or mathmatical support for his ideas.

If someone is going to post something that completely contradicts 40 years of research and trillions of hands of computer simulation, I expect some numbers to back it up.

Otherwise it is nothing more than a troll and will be dealt with accordingly.

[Ouchez]

> Ouchez, I do not know or play with you but
> sometimes you have an interesting point of
> view. The sadness I think is the people
> criticizing you do not understand what you
> are saying. They may rely on sims instead of
> sitautions. If they want mathematical proofs
> then provide them. But my question to you is
> where in the hell are you finding casinos
> dealing down to the last 10 cards?
> Even SD in Vegas lacks the balls to do that.
> Do not name a casino but maybe a state. I
> would like to check it out.

Milk Man,

You have always been a real cool poster. I think we Northern Midwest players think a little different than the other areas, more laid back and innovative. Probably more polite too.

If you post you're e.mail I will contact you.

[Ouchez]

> Then I suggest that you take a look at it.
> In it, he recommends playing a
> "no-bust" strategy in negative
> counts. That is, never hit a 12-16, no
> matter what the dealer is showing.

> I'm sorry, but that fits my definition of
> "playing like an idiot." I do not
> feel that that is the same as saying,
> "You are an idiot." It was not
> meant that way.

> I do not consider myself an idiot, yet I
> will readily admit that I have made idiotic
> plays on a few occasions.

> I cannot contact him via private e-mail - he
> has not provided an e-mail address, leaving
> me with no choice but to do it publicly.

> See above.

> In addition, in another thread, this poster
> was advocating not doubling on 11, another
> idea that strikes me as . . . never mind.

> Furthemore, I have repeatedly asked this
> poster to provide some sort of sims or
> mathmatical support for his ideas.

> If someone is going to post something that
> completely contradicts 40 years of research
> and trillions of hands of computer
> simulation, I expect some numbers to back it
> up.

> Otherwise it is nothing more than a troll
> and will be dealt with accordingly.

I explained the peculiar situation I play under that calls for a different approach but you JUST DON'T get it!

From this point forward I will only post on the most generic of topics to my fellow (and lady) Midwest BJ players, who I do care deeply about.

NO MORE thinking out loud on possible innovative strategy for particular games, Midwest players face, on this board.

[Parker]

> I explained the peculiar situation I play
> under that calls for a different approach
> but you JUST DON'T get it!

No, you are the one who does not "get it." There is nothing new or unique about your game. "Blind pitch," as it is called, has been around for many years.

I personally played such a game in a California Indian casino for over a year and did extremely well at it. There are a number of techniques that can be used without throwing basic strategy out the window.

> From this point forward I will only post on
> the most generic of topics to my fellow (and
> lady) Midwest BJ players, who I do care
> deeply about.

> NO MORE thinking out loud on possible
> innovative strategy for particular games,
> Midwest players face, on this board.

Thank you.

[Ouchez]

[Wildcard]

> Dear Wildcard,

> I don't really have to much to say, but you
> deserve some kind of response. I probably
> won't respond beyond this however, since I
> have a lot on my plate.

> 1. If we can agree that being called a John
> Patterson or an Eliot Jacobson is an insult,
> then I definitely apologize for that crack.
> Dry, affectionate ribbing doesn't always
> work on the Internet.

> 2. Applying such different meanings from the
> same syntax by changing the noun will never
> fly with me. "Like a" means
> "similiar to," not "you
> are." People do things that have
> certain attributes without being
> "that." If Ouchez backs up his
> claims with the proper references or proofs,
> then he deserves bragging rights. If he
> refuses to raise this to the level of
> objective logic, it's hard to take
> seriously, and doesn't add to the value of
> these forums.

> 3. How Parker and Electric Kid choose to
> resolve your criticism is up to them, and I
> trust their judgement. It might not be to
> your liking or even my liking, but I
> personally thank you for taking the time to
> care enough about these forums to be
> persistent.

> Good Cards,

> V

This is the second time I post this...I would like to think the first is missing because of an error on my end, and not for another reason!

I have contacted you via email to close this subject. Thanks for your time to respond.

Regards,
Wildcard