Argument with Teammate over return on investment

[simple man]

I've been wrestling with the notion of team bank management myself as of late, though I am most decidedly a solo player. Simply, I find the task of "mapping" a team/bank one of insight and clever data compilation, ultimately lending itself to a greater understanding of perhaps already "mastered" concepts, like NO, standard deviation, the oft-misunderstood E.V., and the increasingly misused SCORE (as initially defined by Schlesinger).

My advice is simply to gather the proper tools and study the game. The game of 21, as the name suggests, is ENTIRELY ONE OF MATHEMATICS, of FACT and THEORY, and some facets of possible applications utilize abstract mathematics. Unlike hitting a ball with a bat, you can't simply map your bank's 'trajectory' based on how you will approach the mechanics of your 'swing', at least with sufficient accuracy to be as difinitive as it seems you would like, OP. But many figures ARE attainable, and a projection of value to your situation is realistic, with effort. Tools that could help your cause may be: simulation software, but don't cheap-out - the best is such for good reason(!); on-line forum archived threads, blogs, and websites could, with adequate perusal, yield effective information organization methods, alternate reporting methodologies, realistic expectations and/or ranges of results, and possibly even yield useful pre-existing reporting templates; publications, periodicals, or any other written source of topic-related information; and finally, networking.

You have options. Don't be lazy; anything worth it takes time and effort!

Happy hunting, hope I was helpful

[UK-21]

Thanks Tthree for all your feedback. How would I go about doing it?

If you're having to ask how to calculate your hourly return, based on the initial EV of the game(s) you will be tackling, then you need to do more reading - all of the classic books will provide you with everything you need. Here are some building blocks for your calculatons:


% of hands played at different (pos and neg) TCs - most will, or course be at TC zero (refer to Prof BJ by Wong or BBiBJ by Schneider).
- based upon an estimate that each TC increases/decreases the HE by half a percent, you can determine the advantage/disadvantage at each TC?

Determine your unit value, based upon your bankroll ($75,000) - which will also inform your RoR calcs. If you'll be playing with others' money I would respectively suggest dividing the bankroll by 1,200, giving a unit value of $62.50 (which you could round down to $50, thereby avoiding playing with black chips).

Determine your betting ramp (for a 6 deck game, 1-12 is really the minimum I would think; 1-6 results in an about breakeven game).

Determine how many hands per hour you're likely to play with your team.

Determine how many hours per week you're likely to play.


I can't think you need anything else to determine your EV (per hour/per 100 hands etc) or win rate.


Once you've all of this you can dump it into a spreadsheet and the sums become relatively easy. If you're following a Wong Out strategy you can set the amount bet at neg TCs to zero, which has quite a significant impact on what falls out of the bottom.

Building a spreadsheet to calculate all of this is your learning curve - embrace it and learn, and you'll quickly understand why your initial calculations were very silly.

Oh . . . and good luck when you hit the tables.

UK-21

[Blackjackzcx]

UK-21!!!! Your condescending posts couldn’t have been of more value to me! Given that you couldn’t understand how a 12% return in undisclosed time fame didn’t equate exactly to a 12%Advantage, good luck to you when you hit the tables!!!!! xD


Thanks for your post simple man I’m currently using CVCX could you recommend any other programs that may be beneficial?

[UK-21]

UK-21!!!! Your condescending posts couldn’t have been of more value to me! Given that you couldn’t understand how a 12% return in undisclosed time fame didn’t equate exactly to a 12%Advantage, good luck to you when you hit the tables!!!!! xD

Thanks for your post simple man I’m currently using CVCX could you recommend any other programs that may be beneficial?

If you've a copy of CVCX, then you don't need to sit down and do the sums as I've suggested as the software will do it all for you. Why make work for yourself? I can't recommend any other simulation software as I don't use any, although I'm told what you have is the best available. I've always found in my years since leaving school that applying the KISS principle usually pays off (oh simple man that I am) and is a sound barrier against the bull$#it factor that plagues most aspects of life.

Not sure about your comment re the undisclosed timeframe bit? . . . thought you had calculated you'd make a cool 12% net return on your (cumulatively increasing) bankroll every week consistently for thirty two weeks? If/when you manage that, Wall St beckons . . . . In actual fact, you'll be able to pay for my flight to the States out of your cut of the profits to say well done in person!

Let us know when you've raised your risk capital and how you get on.

Be lucky.