Arnold Snyder: 6:5 BJ on LV Strip

[Arnold Snyder]

I have received emails from two players recently informing me that both Caesars and Aladdin in LV are now offering single-deck BJ with a 6:5 payout on BJs, instead of 3:2.
This is a cost of about 1.4% off the top, and seriously devalues both the ace and ten, making counting pretty much a waste of time.
The Caesars report says that Caesars has many of these tables, and also says that Caesars no longer allows surrender on their shoe games.
Neither of these reports came from BJF subscribers, so perhaps one of our LV subscribers could check these joints out. Generally, PPE properties tend to offer similar games, so if Caesars goes this direction with success, we can probably expect to see the other LV PPE properties follow suit (Paris, Hilton, Bally's, Flamingo).

[Michael Belgard]

The last report I received on this was April 23rd. Late surrender had been removed from all games at Caesars for quite some time. Shortly prior to April 23rd, late surrender was returned to many of the tables in the larger casino area (Forum Casino). On all of those tables, the BJ payout dropped to 6:5, a terrible trade off. To my knowledge, all games in the smaller casino area (Palace Casino) still pay BJ 3:2 and have no surrender.

[BlackJackHack]

Absolutely correct, at least as to Caesar's (I did not go into Aladdin). Caesar's did not offer ANY DD this past weekend, although a dealer told me you could get it on request if you're playing VERY high stakes.

I also saw this 6:5 single deck game in several other casinos (e.g. New York New York, Bally's), it is often called "Super Fun Black Jack," but should be called "Super Dumb Black Jack." Sometimes they throw in a stupid bonus (e.g., at NY NY, an all-diamonds BJ pays 2:1, but that's only 1 in 16 BJ's!).

This game is a terrible scam, and we can only hope that the ploppies stay away from it so that the casinos will drop it quickly. Unfortunately, they seemed to be doing a brisk business, and had lots of tables devoted to this game.

[Michael Belgard]

and has several liberal rules and bonuses. Orange County KO has an archived strategy for playing Super Fun on BJ21 Green Chip. Casinos also have to pay a royalty on Super Fun. This game appears to have started dwindling.

[BlackJackHack]

> and has several liberal rules and bonuses.
> Orange County KO has an archived strategy
> for playing Super Fun on BJ21 Green Chip.
> Casinos also have to pay a royalty on Super
> Fun. This game appears to have started
> dwindling.

You're right -- I may have confused the 6:5 single deck with the 1:1 "Super Fun," both of which I saw at several Strip casinos.

[98%]

Yes, all of the PPE properties in Las Vegas with the exception of the Las Vegas Hilton are offering single deck blackjack with a 6:5 payout on blackjacks (and all money in increments of under $5 is paid even money to make things even worse for those who like to make $17 dollar bets and such). I had suggested Bally's be added to the Burn Joints listing seeing as how they converted nearly all of their shoes and double deck games to single deck 6:5 games (and for a real laugh take a look at the advertisement for the single deck games on the big sign out in front of Bally's). Paris, the Flamingo, Caesar's and, yes, even O'Shea's all offer these poor games. To add insult to injury, the O'Shea's game is also d10 and I don't think they allow DAS. On the whole, this is not that big of a deal, though the shoe tables at the Flamingo which were replaced by this unfortunate blackjack bastardization will be missed. Double deck games and shoe games can still be found in all of these places though, in the case of the former, they are usually higher limit tables and are not as numerous as they were before. I do believe that a limited number of 6:5 tables can be found at casinos outside of the PPE group, including a few tables at Harrah's and Aladdin.

Will 6:5 blackjack fly? I think so. I see just as many players playing the games as I saw playing the shoe games which they replaced and I've seen no shortage of green and black action on the tables. The argument can be made that this game may have a short future because no very high limit players will play, as most of them have enough gambling sense to know they're being ripped off. The counter to this is that standard blackjack games are still available to higher limit players in all of these places, though they may be restricted to the high limit pits.

Superfun 21 is the brainchild of one Howard Grossman and is an entirely different beast than 6:5 single deck. As someone mentioned, the illustrious Orange County KO of bj21.com fame has developed a complete basic strategy and a counting strategy for the game. I believe a solid basic strategy can also be found at thewizardofodds.com. In Superfun 21, blackjacks pay even money (except in the case of a diamond blackjack which pays 2:1) but this loss is partially offset by some favorable rules and strange bonus payouts. Even with the correct Superfun 21 basic strategy, I think the house edge is greater than the edge in most 8-deck games. I used to be of the opinion that Superfun 21 would die out but, unfortunately, this does not seem to be the case. Some of Superfun's earliest 'customers' were Station casinos and the game can now be found in nearly all of their properties. Many assorted casinos and such prominent groups as Sam Boyd and even MGM-Mirage have put some Superfun tables in their casinos and I think the total number of Superfun tables in the Las Vegas area has, in about a year, gone from 0 to 60. While it is confusing to many players at first, it seems to eventually pull them in and you can almost always find players on the tables at any of the casinos which offer the game.

While it is sad that these games are cropping up in Las Vegas and, in some cases, replacing once fantastic games such as the single deck at Sam's Town (RIP) and some of the shoe tables in the Flamingo, at the end of the day, you can, and should, just avoid them. In most cases these games offer the same incredibly poor penetration which can be expected in most standard single deck games in the Las Vegas area, which means getting an edge is nearly impossible for the counter who is not willing to spread like an absolute maniac. This, of course, is not practical for most mere mortal players because there is no time to ramp up the bets before the shuffle point and because, being single deck games (and thus vulnerable in the eyes of the unschooled casino personnel) they are still watched closely.

So that's the scoop for now. I hope that answers any questions and explains the Las Vegas single deck situation.

[Don Schlesinger]

Thanks for this beautifully written, highly informational report.

I appreciate the time you took to prepare it.

Don

[Tony]

I was visiting some friends staying at
> Caesars and noticed the 6:5 single deck.
> With das and s17, Trackjack puts the basic
> strategy at +.17. I sit down with 20 units
> at the $10 table in the noisy sports book
> casino. First the dealer would not sell me
> insurance because he said there is "no
> even money". I futally tried to explain
> that insurance is a separate bet. Then the
> floorman told me I had to sit down, rather
> than stand, if I wanted to play. I was the
> only player at the table and I was playing
> two hands using a 1:2 spread. Now with three
> suits watching, I told him I had a herniated
> fifth lumbar disc and needed to stand-I
> really don't. I cashed in $200 profit and
> left. I never heard of a place where posture
> counts. If a player did have a medical
> condition which required standing the
> American Disabilities Act should cover this.
> Crazy!
> Tony

[Don Schlesinger]

>I was visiting some friends staying at Caesars and noticed the 6:5 single deck. With das and s17, Trackjack puts the basic strategy at +.17.

You must be misreading something, Tony. The 6:5 is a huge disadvantage for the player, which das and s17 couldn't possibly make up for. You shouldn't have been playing that game at all; you were getting much the worst of it.

Don

[Tony]

Don,
As always, you are correct. I misread the line for SD. I could not find it at Caesars so in my haste,I sat down and got lucky. Thank God for standard deviation!
Tony

[Don Schlesinger]

> Don,
> As always, you are correct. I misread the
> line for SD. I could not find it at Caesars
> so in my haste,I sat down and got lucky.
> Thank God for standard deviation!
> Tony

As the old saying goes, better lucky than good!! :-)

Don

P.S. Just consulted Trackjack for this game: -1.579%. UGH!!