Knight of Dawn: Watching You?

[Knight of Dawn]

http://www.advantageplayer.com/black...dvcelinni.html

Parker writes:
"Regarding Internet websites, Cellini writes: "The Internet is another major source of information for casino surveillance spies. If you're a frequent user of sites like bj21.com, advantageplayer.com, or the Card Counters' Cafe, you've been had! These sites have more casino surveillance and floor people on them than there are feds monitoring the Web sites that sell plans for homemade explosives." "

"Of course, anyone with half a brain should have already realized this, but we now have official confirmation."

This quote isn't specific. It strongly implies that by simply visiting the board multiple times puts one at risk. If so, how?

I obviously never include personal info or even anonymous email addys. So, for anyone to discover who I am would require some serious hacking. Is this what happens? If not, what is the scope of this hazard?
KOD

[Norm Wattenberger]

I didn't see his site mentioned. And his site is run on Windows

Obviously there are casino folk reading and even posting on these boards. No, they do not know who you are because you visit.

[Parker]

>
> http://www.advantageplayer.com/black...dvcelinni.html

> Parker writes:
> "Regarding Internet websites, Cellini
> writes: "The Internet is another major
> source of information for casino
> surveillance spies. If you're a frequent
> user of sites like bj21.com,
> advantageplayer.com, or the Card Counters'
> Cafe, you've been had! These sites have more
> casino surveillance and floor people on them
> than there are feds monitoring the Web sites
> that sell plans for homemade
> explosives." "

> "Of course, anyone with half a brain
> should have already realized this, but we
> now have official confirmation."

> This quote isn't specific. It strongly
> implies that by simply visiting the board
> multiple times puts one at risk. If so, how?

> I obviously never include personal info or
> even anonymous email addys. So, for anyone
> to discover who I am would require some
> serious hacking. Is this what happens? If
> not, what is the scope of this hazard?
> KOD

First off, an apology is in order. I believe that you wrote me an e-mail concerning this, to which I have not yet responded.

I try to personally respond to every serious e-mail I receive, but I get a lot of them and lately I've been running a bit of a backlog. If anyone has e-mailed me, I'll get to you . . . eventually.

Now, as to your question. What Cellini was referring to was not some sort of hi-tech cyber-sleuthing, but just plain old-fashioned detective work.

Merely posting on a website will not get you into trouble. If it would, I'd be barred from a lot more casinos than I am! :-)

Here is an example of getting in trouble: A couple of years ago someone posted on a bj message board regarding an incident at a downtown casino. They were fairly specific as to when it occurred and provided several details.

A day later someone else responded to the post, identified himself as a shift manager at this particular casino, named the original poster by his real name, and told him not to bother coming back.

In other words, "Loose lips sink card counters." Plenty of pit critters read these pages, and it doesn't take them long to pull up a tape for review.

Another thing to watch for is your e-mail address. It amazes me how "Joe Blow" will pick an appropriate handle and post on the website, and then list his e-mail address, "[email protected]." (Or whatever. I made the name up. If that is a real address of someone, my apologies.)

It is not necessary to include an e-mail address at all when posting on these websites. If you want to include one, open a throwaway account with Yahoo, Hotmail, etc., and use something that cannot be connected to your real name.

[Knight of Dawn]

> First off, an apology is in order. I believe
> that you wrote me an e-mail concerning this,
> to which I have not yet responded.

> I try to personally respond to every serious
> e-mail I receive, but I get a lot of them
> and lately I've been running a bit of a
> backlog. If anyone has e-mailed me, I'll get
> to you . . . eventually.

Yep, no worries. I figured you were busy and I also figured other posters could benefit from the info so they can avoid mistakes before they are made.

> Now, as to your question. What Cellini was
> referring to was not some sort of hi-tech
> cyber-sleuthing, but just plain
> old-fashioned detective work.

I thought this might be the case. For example, if someone posted with the email addy that they use for their personal email, then someone could simply look up their public profile information or do a little social engineering. As such, I avoid posting any indentifiable information. That said, I'm 6'6", 250lbs, Russian and have a heavy accent ;O) Da?

> Merely posting on a website will not get you
> into trouble. If it would, I'd be barred
> from a lot more casinos than I am! :-)

Good to hear!

> Here is an example of getting in trouble: A
> couple of years ago someone posted on a bj
> message board regarding an incident at a
> downtown casino. They were fairly specific
> as to when it occurred and provided several
> details.

> A day later someone else responded to the
> post, identified himself as a shift manager
> at this particular casino, named the
> original poster by his real name, and told
> him not to bother coming back.

Someone that silly probably wouldn't be able to pull off a sucessful camo act anyway.

> In other words, "Loose lips sink card
> counters." Plenty of pit critters read
> these pages, and it doesn't take them long
> to pull up a tape for review.

I'd like to say hello to all the pit critters out there. I have no problem with any of you since your policies are most likely set by management. The way I see it, pro gamblers and casinos need each other. The mere fact that there can _be_ such a thing as a pro gambler is what lends such mystique and glamor to games like blackjack. This, in turn, only encourages more unskilled players to come into the casino and play a losing game, yet have fun doing it. I feel that the amount lost to pros is more than outweighed by the increase in novices. Cracking down too hard on skilled players only drives off ploppies, the pros will keep ekeing out a living as best they can. The result? We both make less money!

Can there ever be a truce? Maybe not. But I think there is room for greater understanding. Many lessons may be learned from Crown Casino in Melbourne, Australia. They have a rather enlightned attitude and are also one of the most profitable casinos in Australia.

KOD

[Norm Wattenberger]

He has again asked that the book be removed from shelves and some 400 posts were deleted on his page. No idea why; but find a copy now if you want it.

[Sun Runner]

"Only Arnold has the last rights to his printings, information, and final works!"

Last rights? .. Final works? .. posting in the third person .. geez .. that sounds kinda grim.

No kidding, it sounds like dire straights. Is he sick or just changing jobs.

If just changing jobs, how is it that anyone can ask a publisher to swallow the front end costs to produce and publish a work and then have the .. nerve, I guess .. to ask said publisher to not sell it?

[Ouchez]

> "Only Arnold has the last rights to his
> printings, information, and final
> works!"

> Last rights? .. Final works? .. posting in
> the third person .. geez .. that sounds
> kinda grim.

> No kidding, it sounds like dire straights.
> Is he sick or just changing jobs.

> If just changing jobs, how is it that anyone
> can ask a publisher to swallow the front end
> costs to produce and publish a work and then
> have the .. nerve, I guess .. to ask said
> publisher to not sell it?

That a love affair has been in the works between Cellini and another well known BJ player. I think what we will see is a new internet BJ site started by these 2 romantically involved personality's.

Stay tuned.

Ouch/ez.

[Parker]

> If just changing jobs, how is it that anyone
> can ask a publisher to swallow the front end
> costs to produce and publish a work and then
> have the .. nerve, I guess .. to ask said
> publisher to not sell it?

It's a free country - he can ask anything he wants.

I can ask Bellagio for a full RFB suite for my next visit to Las Vegas. This does not mean that they will give it to me.

Likewise, Cellini should read the fine print in his contract with HP. If it is anything resembling a standard book contract, it gives the publisher all sorts of rights, and the author very few.

This is not surprising, since, as you mention, the publisher shoulders all the risk involved in publishing the book.

So he can ask whatever he wants - it does not necessarily mean that the publisher is under any obligation to comply.

Of course, without actually seeing the contract, all this is just so much speculation.

[Sun Runner]

> It's a free country - he can ask anything he wants.

.. and apparently might have the stroke to get it done. So a guy changes jobs and gets 400 apparently worthwhile posts about "casino surveillance" removed from public consumption. Gee, thanks.

> Of course, without actually seeing the contract, all this is just so much speculation.

.. yes it is only that, speculation. If Chuck Reyes were to quit, does the SoCal board get dumped? I'm guessing not.

If those books do come off the shelf, it will make me wonder who has whom over the barrel.

[ Really, this is better than watching soap operas. Sometimes I do wish I could post over there. ]

[Parker]

> .. and apparently might have the stroke to
> get it done. So a guy changes jobs and gets
> 400 apparently worthwhile posts about
> "casino surveillance" removed from
> public consumption. Gee, thanks.

> .. yes it is only that, speculation. If
> Chuck Reyes were to quit, does the SoCal
> board get dumped? I'm guessing not.

> If those books do come off the shelf, it
> will make me wonder who has whom over the
> barrel.

I don't know. But I do know that there is at least one "shelf" where the book can still be purchased. Link below

The Card Counter's Guide to Casino Surveillance

[Sharmon]