Best card count for SD or DD?

[Three]

Short Term Plan, In view of the time span you should focus on learning Basic Strategy for each of the two games mentioned and use a small spread.

Spread when you aren't count? That's a new one.

[muffdiver]

Pread when you aren't count? That's a new one.

C'mon Tthree, you must be familiar with this spread---------double your bet after every loss. You have my "can't lose guarantee"!!!!!!!!!!"

[Smoke8]

Pread when you aren't count? That's a new one.

The OP's second post talked about a 1 - 10 spread. I was suggesting that if he is currently using a level one system now, then he should stay with basic strategy and a spread less likely to attract attention to himself. He's going to have enough on his platter without attracting heat!

[BigJer]

I think I read somewhere in this thread you already use Hi Lo. A simple adjustment of counting the 7 and not the 2 will provide more PE necessary for single deck without sacrificing a great deal of BC and no IC. A successful 1 to 10 spread in single deck will quickly put you in the NFL playing status. Come to think about it, so will an unsuccessful one. IF you're wanting to double your bankroll, their may be some upcoming "bargain value" games in the sportsbook.

So what you are saying is don't count the 2s and count the 7s? To clarify do you count the 7s as one? TIA.

[Frank Galvin]

moses,

What you are suggesting is the Uston Advanced +/- Count. BC, PE and IC extremely similar to HiLo, at .95, .55, .76.
HiLo = .97, .51, .76, and Wong Halves = .99, .56, .72

Your suggestion seems like a trade of slight decrease in BC for slight increase in PE.

Did I misinterpret your suggestion?

[Frank Galvin]

No. Bare in mind, this is a unilateral move for someone that already employs Hi Lo. PE is more important than BC in single deck games.

Uston APC BC .92 PE .69 IC .73

AO2 BC .92 PE .67 IC .85

Hi-Opt 2 BC .91 PE .67 IC .91

BC (and possibly PE to some degree) can be improved for all 3 systems with an Ace side count.

Assuming a linear counting method, those 3 appear best suited for 1D games. Is PE more important than BC for 2D games?

[mofungoo]

I think I read somewhere in this thread you already use Hi Lo. A simple adjustment of counting the 7 and not the 2 will provide more PE necessary for single deck without sacrificing a great deal of BC and no IC. A successful 1 to 10 spread in single deck will quickly put you in the NFL playing status. Come to think about it, so will an unsuccessful one. IF you're wanting to double your bankroll, their may be some upcoming "bargain value" games in the sportsbook.

I just ran 2 sims for 1D, H17, 10K BR, 13.5% ROR, 1-4 optimal spread. Hilo=85.57 Uston Adv +/- =83.16.

DO NOT quit using Hilo for Uston Adv +/-. It's a lateral move, at best.

[mofungoo]

IF your coming across country to play single deck blackjack with Hi Lo and and 1-4 spread - I can only think of one question. Why?

To make money.

Mofungoo what are the figures 85.57 and 83.16?

The results of the sims run on Hilo and Uston Adv +/- in dollars or pesos or whatever your 10K bankroll consists of.

[moo321]

Moses,

In the abstract, I don't think PE is more important than BC, even in single deck. IIRC 80% of your gain is from betting, and about 20% from playing, on average.

I think your point may be correct though, that the count you're recommending wins more money in this game because it gains a lot from PE.

[Three]

The numbers I hear spouted are in shoe games about 60% of the potential gain with a reasonable spread is from BC and 40% from PE. Obviously if you can get away with a bigger spread these numbers change. In pitch game due to restricted spread and increased gain from PE due to fewer cards used the numbers flip and 60% of the potential gain is from PE and 40% is from BC. Of course the PE is so poor with HILO that these numbers will not be accurate for HILO.

[moo321]

T3: I'm guessing my post was made as you were writing yours. I've noticed clicking on the Half True count betting box improves results. I do this to get closer to my percentage way of counting. The difference Hilo was $21.21 winrate and 24.27 SCORE. Counting the 7 and not the 2 results were $23.35 winrate and $29.61 SCORE.

So based on results, I'd stand by my statement that switching the 7 for the 2 is an easy way to improve results. But coming in with a 1-4 bet spread likely won't pay for a cab, let alone a flight to get here.

Again, I think your conclusion may be correct, but I'm still not sure about the proposition "PE is more important than BC in SD."

Is this called the silver fox count?

[Frank Galvin]

moo321,

Hey there. Actually, the Silver Fox Count (counts both 2s and 7s) is:

Silver Fox

-1

1

1

1

1

1

1

0

-1

-1

.96

.53

.69

6

B1

Uston Advanced +/- Minus ("UAPM") Count is:

Uston Adv. Plus-Minus

-1

0

1

1

1

1

1

0

0

-1

.95

.55

.76

6.5

B1

UAPM is the same as HiLo, but switching the 2 and 7 (0 and 1 tag values), as suggested by moses.

[Aslan]

So based on results, I'd stand by my statement that switching the 7 for the 2 is an easy way to improve results. But coming in with a 1-4 bet spread likely won't pay for a cab, let alone a flight to get here.

But it will win and it will provide greater longevity. If you are concerned with getting every crumb off the table, you may not get invited back to dinner. But I know, there are lots of other places to play. Moses is a good handle-- he was a traveling man. Kind of reminds me of Ricky Nelson, too. I'm glad you guys took up this subject-- I've been wondering how to improve my DD game-- am not looking for a decent SD game in LV anytime soon, however, and if I found one, I'm sure it would get burned out overnight.