Confused by the basic strategy on this table

[NotEnoughHeat]

On my last trip I tried playing some DD (normally a 6D shoe player), but it was more for fun than to actually make something off it.

Since, for some reason, the wizards of odds website isn't working for me I had to look up another BS calculator

For rules H17, D9,10,11, double soft allowed, DAS, resplit all except aces, no surrender, it says soft 19 is a stand versus 6

However, if you tweak the rules to double any, then it says s19 is a double.

I'm confused, in both cases the double is allowed. But when doubles are restricted you should stand on s19 v 6

Is this chart wrong? or is there some sensible explanation here?
http://blackjackdoc.com/strategy-calculator.htm

[hitthat16]

Not much to be confused about. Just know that if the dealer hits soft 17, you double A8 v 6. Of they stand on soft 17, you stand on A8 v 6.

[NotEnoughHeat]

Not much to be confused about. Just know that if the dealer hits soft 17, you double A8 v 6. Of they stand on soft 17, you stand on A8 v 6.

If that's the case, which I think so as well, then the chart generator I used is wrong. Anyone know a reliable alternative to the Wizard of Odds BS calculator?
EDIT: Wizard of Odds is working again and the chart clearly contradicts the one I posted.

[Dog Hand]

<snip>For rules H17, D9,10,11, double soft allowed, DAS, resplit all except aces, no surrender, it says soft 19 is a stand versus 6

However, if you tweak the rules to double any, then it says s19 is a double.<snip>

NotEnoughHeat,

Two possible explanations:

1. Some casinos with D9 rules treat A-8 as 9 for doubling purposes, so if you get a deuce, your total is only 11, rather than 21. The Sands in Reno pulled this on the legendary LVBear.

2. Some casinos with D9 rules do not permit soft doubles at all. I encountered this rule at a small riverboat in MS.

Perhaps the software was emulating one of these cases.

Hope this helps!

Dog Hand

[moo321]

What Dog Hand said. In many cases, if you catch a 2, it's considered 11, not 21.

[Nikky_Flash]

so the Sands casino said , u have an 8 , a 2, and an ace , but somehow that doesn't equal 21 ? and how is this not cheating ?

[DSchles]

so the Sands casino said , u have an 8 , a 2, and an ace , but somehow that doesn't equal 21 ? and how is this not cheating ?

Once again, this is the logic: The casino does NOT permit soft doubling, where you have the option of calling your ace 1 or 11. They permit ONLY doubling on hard 9, 10, 11. So, if you have A,8, they WILL permit you to double, but only upon the condition that you "declare" and accept that your starting hand is the equivalent of hard 9. What happens when you double, say, 6,3 and then catch a deuce? You're stuck with 11, right? So, in this situation, when you double A,8 (= 9, and NOT 9 or 19) and catch the deuce, you're also stuck with 11.

Clear?

Don

P.S. Note that this reasoning does not in any way affect the hit card, which can, of course, be counted as 1 or 11, should it be an ace.

[Nikky_Flash]

Once again, this is the logic: The casino does NOT permit soft doubling, where you have the option of calling your ace 1 or 11. They permit ONLY doubling on hard 9, 10, 11. So, if you have A,8, they WILL permit you to double, but only upon the condition that you "declare" and accept that your starting hand is the equivalent of hard 9. What happens when you double, say, 6,3 and then catch a deuce? You're stuck with 11, right? So, in this situation, when you double A,8 (= 9, and NOT 9 or 19) and catch the deuce, you're also stuck with 11.

Clear?

Don

P.S. Note that this reasoning does not in any way affect the hit card, which can, of course, be counted as 1 or 11, should it be an ace.

thanks Don,
wonder how much % this adds to the house edge... and if all d9, 10,11 games , automatically employ this rule ?

[moo321]

so the Sands casino said , u have an 8 , a 2, and an ace , but somehow that doesn't equal 21 ? and how is this not cheating ?

Doesn't matter how. Just matters that it is.

When one of us lands a job on an appellate court, we'll fix these problems .

[DSchles]

thanks Don,
wonder how much % this adds to the house edge... and if all d9, 10,11 games , automatically employ this rule ?

The point is, if getting the deuce doesn't give you 21, then you don't double the A,8. So, if you're asking what not being able to soft double costs, the answer, for a 6D game is 0.089 for S17 and 0.098 for H17.

No, all such games do NOT employ that rule. Don't know how it is now, but for years and years, Puerto Rico had no soft doubling, but, weirdly, if you doubled A,8 and caught the deuce, they gave you 21. Go figure.

Don

[Nikky_Flash]

The point is, if getting the deuce doesn't give you 21, then you don't double the A,8. So, if you're asking what not being able to soft double costs, the answer, for a 6D game is 0.089 for S17 and 0.098 for H17.

No, all such games do NOT employ that rule. Don't know how it is now, but for years and years, Puerto Rico had no soft doubling, but, weirdly, if you doubled A,8 and caught the deuce, they gave you 21. Go figure.

Don

lol ,
yes those points were exactly what I needed to know , good info.
thanks again ,

[moo321]

There is still an index for A,8 v bust cards if the 2 does not render 21. It's just higher, and not nearly as important (i.e. I ignore it in D9 games) A,9 index remains the same.

[Jabberwocky]

I never play these ridiculous 9-10-11 games. Sympathize with those that do.