Sorry, I had just finished reading Cellini's guide to casino surveillance, the paranoia got to me.Originally Posted by Sandybestdog
I'm sure the devil's in the details. I doubt the case in Maryland will get more than cab fare home.
Anyway, the guy in Maryland now has his face plastered all over the gaming world. He did not go about it the right way IMO. What do you think he should have done?
He could have cooperated and dropped the matter. Maryland Live is privately owned and does not likely share such information with other casinos.
Or he could have resolutely refused to show his ID, letting the police carry out their threat of arresting him, fingerprinting him, detaining him, and revealing his identity to the casino. Then he might have a worthwhile case against both the casino and the police. Definitely, telling the police what the law is was not a good move on his part; better to be polite and quiet while at the same time refusing to show ID, if you want to go for the lawsuit.
Where am I going wrong?
Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 - 8/23/10... “Life’s most urgent question is: what are you doing for others?” — Martin Luther King, Jr.
When I walk in others' shoes, I like to take a pragmatic approach about things.
In this case, you have both the Police and the Casino personnel within the course of the video violating law. You know there's going to be video as every inch of that place is covered, and you know very well that the casino would have to give up the tapes in court, and if they were somehow of less quality they themselves would likely be found for tampering and altering them. You also have video of the bending of the man's arm, while causing no real reason to apply such pressure.
All this guy really had to do was keep quiet, calm, refuse to give anyone his identification or information, ask for a lawyer, for his chips to be cashed out on the spot at that location without argument or further delay, and let the police do their job at discerning the difference between the grey areas of law and casino law, and let them go forward. Should they themselves detain him, he's got a huge lawsuit. Should the casino force his hand, they step further into a grey area as far as legality is concerned with the pressure to his situation. Backrooming without just cause is allowable, should there be "found" cause from the suspicion, but if he'd have participated, quietly, calmly, made no real arguments aside from his refusal to provide his identification, he'd have been fine, placed his situation into the hands of others, acknowledged and accepted nothing in terms of legal liability, and he'd have ended up with a hayday in this case.
Instead, it just made the cops look a little unprofessional, and the casino employees a little "bullish". If anything, he attempted to martyr himself for no true purpose, successfully outing himself nationwide for what he "does", for no gain. Now, of course, he'd be able to sue the pants off of the Casino should they provide his name and photograph to the public, and that would be a walk in the park affair, but on the whole "they" are smarter than that.
It's a little more serious then that. The video shows the head of security grab a patron and take him to a back-room by force. That's 2nd Degree Assault and False Imprisonment. These are criminal charges that can and will be pursued. At 7:14 in the back-room video "you also forfeit any or all winnings and amenities while this eviction remains in effect" in connection with the assault this is Attempted Robbery, attempted because the head of security backs off when the patron objects to physically handing over the chips. It's also a trespass of chattels and breach of contract.
As for the civil violations, when Police act under color of law in assisting casino staff to violate a patrons rights, that's Civil Conspiracy.
Interesting that this is how the casino reacts when they see a player lose $2800. At a 1-4 spread with 6 decks, I wouldn't even consider this session to be advantage play.
Perhaps they were bored and didn't know what to do with their millions worth of surveillance equipment.
This case reminds me of a case McDuff did:
http://www.bj21.com/advantageplay/la...s/SDOC6643.pdf
If he does reap a windfall here, I believe his career is over. Why did he out himself on the internet, pictures and all? It was unnecessary and I think that is what a lot of these comments are about. Yes, he was manhandled and illegally detained. The casino might get a hefty judgment against them or they might get a simple reprimand. What percentage of the time do such cases result in a worthwhile dollar amount? I'm not arguing against pursuing this case, but when the opportunity does arise, don't throw out half your case by giving up your ID, and on top of that, outing yourself in public.
Last edited by Aslan; 11-14-2014 at 05:26 AM.
Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 - 8/23/10... “Life’s most urgent question is: what are you doing for others?” — Martin Luther King, Jr.
I think this is the crux of the matter. If he didn't get the tapes through request through the district attorney, he would never have had any proof whatsoever. And IF he pursues the case, he will be outed....so to speak.... because litigation, unless under very specific circumstances IS public record. So it becomes more along Norm's question..........was it worth it or not? I think he wins for false imprisonment....maybe some assault. They are breaking their own states rules by not cashing the chips or threatening to take them. We all know card counting is legal. They are not accusing him of cheating. So what is the value of this case? That depends upon the jury that is sat. I don't think ANY attorney would rely solely on a judge alone to decide this case. No matter what; doubt it's a "life changing" monetary award.
Nor I don't think it's worth giving up a lifetime of playing cards BUT maybe he has other motives? Will he become famous? Will he be able to "cash in" on this notoriety to become a "blackjack expert"? Who knows what he really wants? But I do know that from my observation of the questioning by the police and while he was backroomed, I sure got the feeling that he was petrified or at the least very nervous. That this was not really some stunt at that time of the video. But I also saw that he didn't have his arm restrained all the way back to the room. So was he initially planning on going after the casino? Then became scared when law enforcement became involved? Who knows?
"Women and cats will do as they please, and Men and dogs should just relax and get used to the idea" --- Robert A. Heinlein
I noticed that you used third person, but your handle is the name of the person involved. If you are Justin Mills and are okay with people knowing that, the discussion would work better to say so. If you don't want people to know you are the involved person, or you aren't, perhaps you should change your handle.
Just a suggestion.
"I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse
Yes Norm this is Justin.
If you look at the assault video my arm is restrained all the way to the back-room.
I was using a players card that day all they had to do was key in my card and pull up my info that way. When I first saw the security staff I thought I was going to be 86ed, instead they demanded that I go with them and stopped me when I tried to walk towards the exit.
I support you ,but hope it does not damage your playing career which I doubt . There are probably other possibilities. Hope everything turns out good for you . A 1-4 spread on DD ,now that is disturbing. A lot of us will be waiting for a good outcome for you Justin.
Last edited by stopgambling; 11-14-2014 at 08:41 AM.
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