The Colts got served up on a silver platter whether the balls were deflated or not. The Patriots were the better team, that's why Brady is going to his 6th Super Bowl. If the balls were deflated to give the receivers an edge than the DB's on the Colts defense had an edge. The media is trying to make a controversy out of nothing, it's a sales gimmick for people to tune in to the game.
The deflated ball helps every aspect of ball control. It may or may not make it easier for the QB to throw depending on who the QB is but it makes catching and not fumbling the ball much easier. Recovering your own fumble is much easier because the ball doesn't bounce near as far. It is pretty easy to dislodge a fully inflated ball from someone's grip but damn near impossible to do the same when some air is let out of the ball. The Pats are the better team which makes you wonder why they cheated. Is it just that they have been always cheating. There was some stats quoted today that since the 2007 rule change that allowed teams to supply the balls they will use on offense the Pats have an unreal difference in fumbles lost over any team in the league the entire time, 2007-present. Here is a great visual of this phenomenon since 2010:Originally Posted by Blitzkrieg
http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/blog/?p=2932
The really damaging part is where the Pats go from not very high in the 5 year plays/fumble stats to among the top half dozen in NFL history. The times 2007-2011, 2008-2012, 2009-2013, 2010-2014. Then you look at the disparity of dome teams (play 50+% indoor games) in the top of the list versus teams that play outside (few indoor games). Obviously fumbles happen most in outdoor games. I mean if they put NE on the mean line they would be way to right, off the graph and off the window. That is how far an outlier their offensive plays/fumble stat is since shortly after they could supply their own balls for games.
The most damning evidence look at the how the Pats stats for offensive plays/fumble lost changed for each 5 year period as a new year was added and the oldest year dropped off:
2000-2004: 96 op/fl, 179th in the last 25 years
2001-2005: 95 op/fl, 200th in the last 25 years (2000 dropped out and 2005 was added)
2002-2006: 91 op/fl, 240th in the last 25 years (2001 dropped out and 2006 was added)
2003-2007: 99 op/fl, 142nd in the last 25 years (2002 dropped out and 2007 was added)
2004-2008: 101 op/fl, 127th in the last 25 years (2003 dropped out and 2008 was added)
2005-2009: 107 op/fl, 71st in the last 25 years (2004 dropped out and 2009 was added)
2006-2010: 121 op/fl, 29th in the last 25 years (2005 dropped out and 2010 was added)
2007-2011: 149 op/fl, 5th in the last 25 years (2006 dropped out and 2011 was added)
2008-2012: 148 op/fl, 6th in the last 25 years (2007 dropped out and 2012 was added)
2009-2013: 156 op/fl, 2nd in the last 25 years (2008 dropped out and 2013 was added)
2010-2014: 187 op/fl, 1st in the last 25 years (2009 dropped out and 2014 was added)
So what we have is a sightly above average team at offensive plays/fumble lost. They keep getting worse as another year is added and one dropped off until 2007 is added. Then in each successive year they leap over other teams as a year prior to 2006 drops off and another is added on. Once only years after 2006 are in the 5 year group the Pats are number 3 and the next year are number 4 keeping their status relative two other teams ahead and behind them. Then the final 2 years they are number 1 each year for the last 25 years. What changed in 2007? The teams got to provide the balls their offense used during the game. It sure looks conclusive that after 2006 when teams provided the balls their offense would use, offensive plays without a fumble lost went through the roof to points no team has had. Once the last year's season is included they are number 1 only to be surpassed by this season. Of the top 6 spots for 5 year periods in the last 25 years the 4 periods that the Pats provided the playing balls for their offense hold 4 of the top 6 spots.
Possibly even worse is looking at the offensive plays /fumble whether lost or not. The Pats are the only non-dome team except for the Chiefs in the top 25 ranked 5 year seasons in the last 25 years. The Pats are there for all 5 five year periods beginning in 2006-2010 to 2010-2014.
It looks like they used the supply your own balls rule change to their advantage since the beginning in 2007. The last 2 years are just ridiculous advantage for the stats I listed. That was also the same two years that the last set of home and road scoring stats suggested they have been under inflating balls for. You can interview people all you want and maybe some will be honest but the stats don't lie. There is something remarkable about the ball in the last two years when the Pats are using it. The stats say it isn't just the talent. Look at this years home and road games:
Road:
MIA: 3 fumbles 2 lost
MIN: 1 fumble 0 lost
KC: 2 fumbles 1 lost
BUF: 0 fumbles 0 lost
IND: 0 fumbles 0 lost
GB: 0 fumbles 0 lost
SD: 1 fumble 1 lost
NYJ: 0 fumbles 0 lost
Total: 7 fumbles 4 lost
Home:
OAK: 0 fumbles 0 lost
CIN: 1 fumble 0 lost
NYJ: 0 fumbles 0 lost
CHI: 1 fumble 0 lost
DEN: 1 fumble 0 lost
DET: 1 fumbles 0 lost
MIA: 1 fumble 0 lost
BUF: 0 fumbles 0 lost
Total: 5 fumbles 0 lost
Playoffs:
BAL: 2 fumbles 0 lost
IND: 1 fumble 0 lost
In their 10 home games this year the Pats didn't lose a fumble while losing a fumble every other of their 8 road game on average. It seems the balls the Pats use at home just don't bounce the same as the ones they use on the road.
Last edited by Three; 01-23-2015 at 09:38 PM.
Finally, someone with intelligence gets it (You too Aslan, though you're basically allowing T3 to ramble nonsensical bullshit left and right by replying to him)
That makes total sense, except for the part where each team, both Home AND Away, get to have their own balls.
So there goes your windbag theory, please, just stop posting in this thread. There's no historical, statistical, or anecdotal evidence to support the idea that they've been "cheating" much less gaining an "advantage".
I think the reason the entire country away from the states populated by NE fans can't believe Brady is for several reasons. The first Brady's comments about preferring the low limit of what the NFL officials will accept and doesn't want anybody to mess with his perfect footballs and that is the perfect football shows he likes footballs with less pressure and he is aware of them being off some by the feel of the ball. If he hadn't experimented with different inflation levels he wouldn't make this comment down to a specific inflation. Nobody's going to believe that a member of the Pats organization, knowing Brady's obvious strong feelings on this if that is genuine, would change the pressure in the footballs. Then you watch Brady's body language at the press conference. Many people aren't very strong at reading body language but when somebody is telling you yes while shaking their head no only the most gullible person doesn't pick up on it. Brady did this throughout the press conference FOR 30 MINUTES while using political double speak to not answer questions straight forward. People often even shake their head no when making lying statements that are not yes no but an explanation. Questions he shook his head no while giving a long winded political double speak answer designed to make you think he answered what you asked while in fact skirting the question. (Looking at a press conference held after underperforming expectations against the Jets early in the year he didn't shake his head no much at all. When he did you could tell he was saying everyone works hard and did their best when he thinks some players didn't and some could work harder from this body language. Ironically he answers a question around minute 2 that he needs to work on his body language because it is not his strong suit. He is talking about his demeanor as a team leader but given ow literally transparent his body language makes him in a press conference it is extreme irony. It is not his typical speaking style!):
1) When and how did you supposedly (supposedly added when the question needed to be repeated) alter the balls?
He has trouble forming a proper sentence. Then shakes his head no while talking about the balls being perfect and the equipment guys doing a great job and not doing anything to alter the balls. Then he says some honest statements not shaking his head about the balls being under inflated happening. Then shaking his head no when saying he went through his normal process on Sunday and that he didn't think anything of it. But he shakes his head yes to hearing about the detection of the cheating for the first time on Monday in a radio interview.
2) Is Tom Brady a cheater?
He shakes his head no at the exact instance i feel like I have always played within the rules and would never break the rules. Other tells, the uncomfortable laugh and the pursing of the lips before answering. These are tell tale signs someone is about to lie. The pursing of the lips is especially a red flag. He continues to shake his head no while saying he believes in fair play and the league and likes the attempts to make parity in the league (Which means make sure no dynasty like the Pats are exist but must cycle through rebuilding when adjusting to the salary cap etc just like every other team)
This post could go on forever. It was 30 minutes and I am only 2 minutes into it. Just watch his head nodding yes for truth and shaking it no for a lie. He shakes his head no when lying or about to change the subject to a lie and sakes his head yes or keeps it still when telling the truth. It becomes apparent he is lying to almost everything. Just compare his body language from this September press conference and the one he did on Inflate-gate:
If you appreciate irony be sure to check out Brady's comment about his body language about 2 minutes into the September press conference. Hilarious!!
http://www.patriots.com/news/article...b-5a7a010bacd7
http://www.msnbc.com/now/watch/full-...e-387846723865
So you have Brady basically confessing to at least knowing what went down to anyone that isn't totally ignorant about the basics of reading body language. Brady is a horrible liar. Most of the public may not even understand why they felt he lied at the press conference. They pick up on body language subconsciously if not consciously. Gullible and biased people who subconsciously want to be mislead are the only ones that bought the Pats press conference circus act. The rest felt Brady lied or mislead knowingly, as if there is a difference. That means he was in on it. Nobody is going to believe a Pats equipment guy would alter the ball without Brady's knowledge. If you thought they might do so and it doesn't fit with Brady's conviction that he would be very upset if someone altered the balls after he chose them. Of course he shook his head no through the entire statement so not many would think he was being honest.
Finally, you never see QBs not supporting other QBs through troubles. They either support them or say nothing. In this case the vast majority of QBs do what is unheard of. The strongly come out against Brady because what the Pats are selling is so unbelievably. Check out Mark Brunnell's and Bettis' and rants on Brady. All three football players are emotional, disappointed in Brady for lying. They find Brady's statements utterly ridiculous. Bettis even says it the balls were under inflated in the last game with the Colts in week 10 because that is how Brady likes it.
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=122...sportscenterTW
Net result is anybody that can sniff out the truth and not be played a fool their whole life doesn't believe Brady. The ones giving him a pass either didn't see the press conference or they are easy marks in life for con men or they just want to believe Brady so they allow themselves to be deceived.
Last edited by Three; 01-24-2015 at 08:16 AM.
Talking about being able to tell a football is under inflated and the advantage of using the under inflated ball. I already knew this which is why my reaction is what it is. I have explained much of this already and I didn't handle the ball much in football. I was a tackle on both offense and defense and played special teams as well. I did play with kickers, QBs receivers , RBs and D-backs tat made it to the NFL. There are a few SB rings in that group. We have talked about this issue many times. In those days everyone shared the ball. Kickers wanted it one way and QBs another etc. Anyway, here is what some pros say about the ability to detect the difference between 10.5 and 12.5 psi in a football game and if it is plausible Brady couldn't tell:
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=122...sportscenterTW
I have used the historic Pats stats to show exactly what would be expected from using under inflated balls has occurred in NE for years and possibly since the rule change in 2007 that allowed each team to supply its own balls broken in and inflated between 12.5 to 13.5 psi.
Last edited by Three; 01-24-2015 at 08:14 AM.
My last reply to him yesterday a 8:07 in the morning-->Waiting for NFL report on its investigation.
Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 - 8/23/10... “Life’s most urgent question is: what are you doing for others?” — Martin Luther King, Jr.
Who's replying to him now!laugh1.gif
Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 - 8/23/10... “Life’s most urgent question is: what are you doing for others?” — Martin Luther King, Jr.
I only see Ex's posts when someone quotes them and Norm is working on a new feature to make members not see ignored peoples posts when quoted by others not see when he gets around to it.
The NFL has found 11 of 12 footballs under inflated to exactly the same low pressure. It is so low other QBs go wow when handling a ball inflated to that level. when they grab a football inflated to that amount. The NFL has interviewed 40 people around the controversy. But they haven't interviewed any of the players yet. That was in their press release yesterday. Doesn't that seem odd to you? It looks like the Pats owner's good friendship with NFL execs may be delaying a proper investigation. It may just be that the NFL doesn't want to suspend Brady or Belicheck until after the SB. You can bet whatever the NFL does it is all about product and protecting their brand and if it works out that some justice falls within those considerations the fans will get that.
I personally would not be surprised to find that Brady is guilty. Furthermore, I would not be surprised to find it common practice within the NFL to deflate balls to preferred pressures, except in cases where the QB likes the highly inflated ball, as in the case of Aaron Rodgers. Players would not be looking for it if they didn't do it themselves. Plus, anyone who touches the ball can do it with the simple insertion of a needle hidden in their hand. Hey, I have a conspiracy theory! The referee spotting balls did it because he wanted to hedge his friend's bet on the Patriots! Or was it because he wanted to frame the Patriots so that his beloved Colts might go to the Stupid Bowl. I'd say the butler did it, but he'd have trouble accessing the ball. Maybe the ball boy did it because he was betting on the game, too. But perhaps the best theory is maybe the officials did it when they first inflated the footballs because they didn't like something Belichick said at an NFL cocktail party days before the game. If Tthree is a truther, he knows what I am talking about, not to disparage truthers, as they are entitled to their opinion. If this has entered the arena of politics or other forbidden topic, it is not meant as such, but only as a comment said in passing and hoping to elicit a chuckle or two. As much as I love Tthree, I think he is obsessing about this issue. They all do it when they think it will help, and it does speak to integrity, the fact that in sports nowadays there is little to go around. In Deflatgate, in steroids, in other substances, in forbidden betting, in misleading injury reports, in spying on the other teams, in doing practically anything to win, I believe we have only seen, or will ever see, the tip of the iceberg. Those are not robots out on the field, they are flawed human beings with clay feet and deflated balls. While I would like to see a move (I refuse to say "return") toward integrity in sports and all other human endeavors, I will not hold my breath until this happens. Let the fines and penalties be imposed and get on with it! Maybe the Patriots did wrong, but back-rooming and rubber hosing them will not change anything. Let the team without sin stand up, and we can all stone those lying gangstas together! On with the game!
Last edited by Aslan; 01-24-2015 at 01:13 PM.
Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 - 8/23/10... “Life’s most urgent question is: what are you doing for others?” — Martin Luther King, Jr.
I don't know what a truther is nor do I care. I am what I am and I am proud of it. It sounds like a truther is some kind of conspiracy nut. I am not a conspiracy nut. I just understand how things are and don't expect them to be different. I have always loved the game of football and think it is by far the best team sport out there. I was always impressed with the Pats ability to field a winning team in the salary cap era, their depth when dealing with players who must miss games or seasons. The ability to lose key receivers and RBs and still perform at a high level. When I find out tat they won SB because they had an unfair advantage or they are violating all the other rules to ensure a fair game in order to achieve a dynasty status I lose all the high degree of respect I had for them. For people that would cheat and lie it is easy to let it slide but I expect the same kind of integrity in every aspect of my life from others. While I know I most likely won't see it I give everyone the benefit of doubt until they prove they aren't like me. Obviously the Pats lost the benefit of doubt a long time ago. I always thought Brady was clean but now it seems he may be the worst one of all. Oddly the main thing that makes him look the novice follower in this rather than the ring leader is how tremendously bad he is at lying. I am not sure I ever saw anyone so bad at it.
The level of disappointment is proportional to the distance the one disappointing has fallen. i had the utmost respect for Brady even though I felt he was over rated by many. I felt he was one of the best but the fact that he got 3 tainted SB victories was more a coincidence than Brady himself. And years of team success was just that teams success. Brady was fortunate to be on a good team. Now we find out Brady knows about under inflating balls. He likes them that way. He knows his equipment guys will only give him exactly what he tells them. No equipment manager in the NFL would do this without their QB's knowledge. That means tis is an ongoing thing. The odds that they would do it for the first time in an AFC Championship game they should win easily anyway is nil. You look to stats to see anomalies that point to how long they have been doing it and they suggest 2-8 seasons. That makes the stats of almost all of Brady's career a fraud. It is not fair to other players that played fair to have the tainted stats as part of the record book. If Brady didn't have a remarkable history it would be no big deal. He would not have fraudulent stats all over the record book.
This situation p*sses me off on so many levels and it is a huge deal not a big deal. Add this to Spy-gate and Brady's entire career is tainted. Every game's stats must have an asterisk. Spy-gate taints 2000-2007, inflate-gate taints 2007 to present.
What the game proved was that whoever deflated the footballs put the Pats at a clear disadvantage in the first half over the second half. Thank God they found it in time!
Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 - 8/23/10... “Life’s most urgent question is: what are you doing for others?” — Martin Luther King, Jr.
You have a case but if the balls were indeed deflated a few psi I don't think it's going to affect the game that much. The Colts had every opportunity. The Patriots were clearly the better team. The Patriots are a passing team and have always been since Brady has been the quarterback and receivers don't fumble that often as say running backs or running teams, the stats on losing fumbles don't mean much to me. Their just outclassing their opponents T3.
Winners always get criticized. It's the same mentality the house takes when they want to stop a blackjack player from playing. They just say the player has an advantage and is cheating somehow and they don't like it. I've pondered that NFL games are rigged to a degree. The games are more micromanaged than ever before. Why? Is it to control the point spread? To control the outcome of a game via the refs? I wouldn't put it past the league. Just like the lights going out in the Super Bowl a few years back. I don't believe that it occurred by happenstance. Steroids use among players is another aspect of the game that has been tainted.
Last edited by Blitzkrieg; 01-24-2015 at 01:46 PM.
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