Am I playing the right game or it is just variances?

[RobinHood21]

I play 30x as many hours on my own BR as I do others for your information. I am not blessed with an endless amount of others money. I have worked hard to gain trust with some decent "big money" players. And there is more pressure for me to perform with them then myself, as working for them has a much higher rate of pay and most of the pay is guaranteed. I don't have a job. I don't have a huge nest egg. I have a mortgage. My GF has a son. There are many things to add pressure. But since I treat this like any job I've had before, if I show signs of anger or am angry at work, I will more then likely be fired. If I express confidence, humility and am happy, I will more then likely succeed (and keep my job)... If you are a pro baseball player and you have worked your tail off all offseason to perfect your swing. Putting in hours upon hours in the batting cages, hitting off the T, studying film. And then you step in the box on opening day and the pitcher puts two strikes on you. The next pitch comes at 97mph and you put a great swing on it. But miss and strike out... Who do you think is going to be more successful or more likely to go into a slump? A person who gets angry? Or a person who believes 100% in his hard work and doesn't let one sample effect his emotions? Tony Gwynn is by far the greatest hitter since Ted Williams. He was also by far the happiest player in MLB.


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[Sharky]

...Do I have to spell it out for you? L-O-N-G-E-V-I-T-Y. Why would I care about flat betting through a TC-2 count if I just murdered the shoe and now need to "cool off" a bit for my exit?...

you post stated that the count was +2-4 and you flat bet through the end of the shoe...you did mention losing "big" for you a couple prev sessions...sounded like you were playing like "asared" rabbit...that's all i'm saying

if the count tanks to -2, just leave...if you meant you were flat betting at -2 to finish a shoe (and then you left) as your cover after betting 2-4 units for the majority of the shoe, you have a lot to learn, pal

[Exoter175]

I play 30x as many hours on my own BR as I do others for your information. I am not blessed with an endless amount of others money. I have worked hard to gain trust with some decent "big money" players. And there is more pressure for me to perform with them then myself, as working for them has a much higher rate of pay and most of the pay is guaranteed. I don't have a job. I don't have a huge nest egg. I have a mortgage. My GF has a son. There are many things to add pressure. But since I treat this like any job I've had before, if I show signs of anger or am angry at work, I will more then likely be fired. If I express confidence, humility and am happy, I will more then likely succeed (and keep my job)... If you are a pro baseball player and you have worked your tail off all offseason to perfect your swing. Putting in hours upon hours in the batting cages, hitting off the T, studying film. And then you step in the box on opening day and the pitcher puts two strikes on you. The next pitch comes at 97mph and you put a great swing on it. But miss and strike out... Who do you think is going to be more successful or more likely to go into a slump? A person who gets angry? Or a person who believes 100% in his hard work and doesn't let one sample effect his emotions? Tony Gwynn is by far the greatest hitter since Ted Williams. He was also by far the happiest player in MLB.


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I take it you've never played a physical sport in your life?

Anger and Rage is what they teach you to build to perform, and maintain focus.

You keep insinuating that Anger is a bad thing, my guess is you haven't the slightest clue what Anger truly is.

you post stated that the count was +2-4 and you flat bet through the end of the shoe...you did mention losing "big" for you a couple prev sessions...sounded like you were playing like "asared" rabbit...that's all i'm saying

if the count tanks to -2, just leave...if you meant you were flat betting at -2 to finish a shoe (and then you left) as your cover after betting 2-4 units for the majority of the shoe, you have a lot to learn, pal

You need to read that a little closer. I didn't flat beat through a positive count, I flat bet through a -2TC to finish the shoe to relieve some heat.

If you leave the moment you don't have an advantage, after taking them for several large bets (as I did for several hands), you're just adding to your heat and have much to learn, pal.

I mean really, what part of the following quote wasn't clear about me taking a big win through an advantage count, and then once it settles, flat betting the end of the shoe @ TC-2, not "TO" TC-2?

Reading comprehension, how does it work?

I saw a near instant RC of +26 today on 6D, maintained a TC+2-4 for almost 3.5-4 decks before it settled down, played through the end of the shoe at TC-2 flat betting just because I felt a little guilty for getting it all out there so fast. Racked up a huge win today

[Three]

I take it you've never played a physical sport in your life?

Anger and Rage is what they teach you to build to perform, and maintain focus.

You keep insinuating that Anger is a bad thing, my guess is you haven't the slightest clue what Anger truly is.

I played football and my performance stood out in the trenches. I played strong side tackle on both defense and offense. Anyway they tried to get my emotions up but my game was fueled by cerebral knowledge of how to win a wrestling standoff quick combined with adrenaline. Emotion got in the way of the cerebral part of winning the battles in the trenches. The one game I started with a subpar performance the coach pulled me for a couple plays and tried to jack me up but he only got my usual level headed response. I could see it frustrated him but he couldn't keep his best lineman out of the game. When I went back in I blew everyone out. It isn't often everyone agrees a lowly lineman won the game but that day it was clear to all even the other team. All I did for those 2 plays was regain focus and think about how to counter the moves that were beating me. I went back in and performed my calculated counter moves to their moves and I dominated the rest of the game. Some guys need anger to get the adrenaline flowing but anger also clouds your thinking. If you can get the adrenaline flowing without rage or fear you can also be thinking clearly while the world seems to move in slow motion.

Anyway my point is anger clouds the thought process while adrenaline makes everything clearer and seem to happen in slow motion. Which do you think is more useful at a BJ table? If I ever feel like I am starting to play poorly for any reason I am not going to play much longer.

[seriousplayer]

Yeah, it is kind of strange the OP has singled out Palace Station, which has a reputation of probably the sweatiest of station properties, plus there are much better games at other station properties.

I've seen some very cocky pit bosses and dealers during my three days playing at the Palace Station. I just want to punch them in the face. The dealers there think they know everything giving players lecture about blackjack. They refuse to give a player a free buffet since he stay in the hotel. Sweet? That is not sweet.

[Exoter175]

I played football and my performance stood out in the trenches. I played strong side tackle on both defense and offense. Anyway they tried to get my emotions up but my game was fueled by cerebral knowledge of how to win a wrestling standoff quick combined with adrenaline. Emotion got in the way of the cerebral part of winning the battles in the trenches. The one game I started with a subpar performance the coach pulled me for a couple plays and tried to jack me up but he only got my usual level headed response. I could see it frustrated him but he couldn't keep his best lineman out of the game. When I went back in I blew everyone out. It isn't often everyone agrees a lowly lineman won the game but that day it was clear to all even the other team. All I did for those 2 plays was regain focus and think about how to counter the moves that were beating me. I went back in and performed my calculated counter moves to their moves and I dominated the rest of the game. Some guys need anger to get the adrenaline flowing but anger also clouds your thinking. If you can get the adrenaline flowing without rage or fear you can also be thinking clearly while the world seems to move in slow motion.

Anyway my point is anger clouds the thought process while adrenaline makes everything clearer and seem to happen in slow motion. Which do you think is more useful at a BJ table? If I ever feel like I am starting to play poorly for any reason I am not going to play much longer.

Your point is very contradictory here, and you're coming off as yoda more than anything. The reason coaches try to fire you up (anger) is to pump adrenaline which will make us quicker, faster, stronger, more focused. Anger in and of itself is the release of adrenaline most commonly known to the body.

There isn't a single professional athlete alive who is just "smarter" than his need for the relation between adrenaline and anger, except for maybe in golf, though I excelled at that and again, found anger to fuel adrenaline to increase focus. T3, you're talking to someone who played two ways all through high school in a major metropolitan area with a state championship under my belt (predominantly from the OLB/DE position on defense, TE/OT on offense). You're pretty much preaching to the choir on this one about using your mind to overcome this and that. Hate to knock you off the high horse a bit there, but that's something EVERYONE does. You make your grand story to come off like those who get angry lose focus and just get mad and bear rush things, and I'm here telling you that every single aspect you "came up with" I did as well, and used anger to focus that. I hold several division/state records for sack totals and TFL's, so sorry if your story seems more like a trumped up day of glory than anything else to me, but the trenches is where I made my bread and butter, and it got me through college, and it makes me laugh quite a bit with this whole "anger is bad" mentality. Its the inverse, think of all that you'd have accomplished if you learned to harness anger and use it for its adrenaline. That's what they teach us, that's what they train us. Your coach wasn't mad because he couldn't get you angry and fired up, he was mad because he saw all that potential being wasted because you lacked the will to take it to the next level of performance.

All of that leading me to believe you were in a very small town/city where you played, because that kind of "insubordination" would have you off the team anywhere in the midwest with at least a modest sized population, let alone where I grew up lol.

Back to my point, purely addressing your final closing statement. Your post is a contradiction. If Anger clouds the thought process, while Adrenaline makes everything clearer, and the two are nearly mutual, how do you arise to a conclusion from a cyclical nature like that?

Unless you know of some way to produce adrenaline without Anger or Fear, your argument is wholly invalid.

Again, do yourselves a favor and stop acting like Anger is a "bad" thing to have, otherwise be prepared to have me lay down the millions of articles disproving your belief on that fallacy.

To reiterate, I Have no issue here but the gross misuse of the word Anger, and the improper connotations associated with it here.

[Exoter175]

I've seen some very cocky pit bosses and dealers during my three days playing at the Palace Station. I just want to punch them in the face. The dealers there think they know everything giving players lecture about blackjack. They refuse to give a player a free buffet since he stay in the hotel. Sweet? That is not sweet.

He said sweatiest, not sweetest.

As in, heat. Unwanted attention, prying eyes on every move? Ya know? Lawrence Fishburne stuff?

[KJ]

Exoter175, I don't think you are making the case for anger that you think you are. Equating blackjack to physical sports doesn't work. It's not the same arena. There is something to be said about a player playing a sport who has been getting his butt beat, say a lineman in football or a hockey player, getting angry with himself and using that anger as motivation, to play better. But blackjack is a game involving mental strength, rather than physical strength and it doesn't work the same way. In a game involving mental rather than physical ability, getting angry and/or over emotional involving several other emotions is a definite negative. You will make mistakes, poor and rash decisions. It is just a huge negative. The strength lies with staying calm, cool, collect and thinking clearly at all times. Managing emotions, is definitely something a successful player has to grasp.

I have to say that I completely agree with T3 on this topic, which pleases me, because he is wrong about so many things that I don't get to agree with him on.

I myself, am far from perfect on the emotion issue. As evident by some of my recent threads, frustration sometimes 'creeps' into my own mindset. But never when I am playing. This is usually after the fact thing when I am home, updating records and such and it is only involving really, really under-achieving periods of months and months strung together. I am not making excuses. This aspect is still a negative and weakness and something I recognize and am trying to work on.

[Sharky]

[QUOTE=Exoter175;137191....If you leave the moment you don't have an advantage, after taking them for several large bets (as I did for several hands), you're just adding to your heat and have much to learn, pal...[/QUOTE]

playing at -2 is a DECISIVE disadvantage, my friend, frankly, an exit point...the optimal time to leave is RIGHT after large bets...plz expand on the message you feel you sent by "flat betting" -2 TCs after betting 4 units???...the message you are sending me is that I won, with an advantage, now i'm fixin to give some back (cause i "feel guilty")...haha

...do you really think you OWE an explanation of why you are leaving a table AT ANY POINT IN A SHOE????..... date, prostitute, limo, movie, dinner, tee time...ETC, ETC, ETC...so staying though a -2 count as "cover cause you felt guilty from a high count", AFTER "taking them for several larger bets"....is VERY amateurish, pal....you leave....you will learn, or continue to lose (-ev)

honesty, just trying to help you..so this discussion ends here

good luck

[Three]

Your point is very contradictory here, and you're coming off as yoda more than anything. The reason coaches try to fire you up (anger) is to pump adrenaline which will make us quicker, faster, stronger, more focused. Anger in and of itself is the release of adrenaline most commonly known to the body.

My entire life I have been completely level headed. When everyone is panicking and nobody is doing what needs to be done I am acting. I have been an adrenaline junky my entire life. Before there was Xgames I was Xgames. My level headedness allowed me to do things that people driven by emotion couldn't do. When you are flying through the air at 60 MPH there is no place for anything but a clear mind acting on the flood of info in a split second. I could list a lot of things but only 1 interesting one comes to mind. Skateboarding down a mountain road at over 60 MPH I hit something in the road that slowed my board down sending me to do a face plant into the asphalt. I knew in a split second the speed didn't matter and I could keep my face out of the asphalt as long as every time I needed to get some distance between my face and the asphalt I planted my hand as far in front of me as I could and pushed off as it approached. The more lift I got the fewer times I would need to plant another hand. To pull this off it was necessary to get my face very close to the pavement. I went 40 yards "running" on my hands before reaching a softer landing area to tuck and roll on. Everyone thought I was going to be really messed up but it didn't even hurt. I had been doing high speed stunt rolls for a long time so once I cleared the pavement the rest was old hat. My edge was strength and the ability to keep level headed.

I was one of the best wrestlers around due to wrestling my hothead brother into submission many many times a day every day of my life. I busted ass walking swamps all my childhood so I had muscles developed in my legs that few even knew existed. Kind of like when a musclehead tries to shoot a bow. The little girl that has shot a bow a lot easily pulls the bow back but the musclebound weightlifter can't get it back at all. My norse warrior build and low center of gravity made me the ultimate lineman. There is only one way to get me emotional and that is threaten my friends. If you do that you better hope I stop myself before I kill you with my bare hands because it would happen pretty quick.

I could tell you about hitting the slopes or riding waves bigger than most surfers would even consider getting in the water for. I can tell you I am alive today because I am level headed in any situation. Do you have any idea how long you are underwater when a 30 foot wave eats you. Each time around the tube takes forever. I went around 3 times after missing the take off on a monster wave. In that situation you have to relax until everything feels right to escape the waves energy and then kick out of the wave. That time it took three circuits around the tube. Then everything felt right and I kicked out of the wave. I am not sure if I could have made another circuit but the surest way to drown was to panic and try to get out before it is possible. If it hadn't felt right I would have had to relax and wait until it felt right or I passed out. Fortunately I had trained for both time and distance underwater swimming and knew how to conserve my oxygen.

Sure if I ran on rage I could do some spectacular stuff but I could do it anyway with my head clear without making the mistakes rage's mental state would instill. I would be dead a many times over if that is where my adrenaline rush came from. Fear and rage are both bad for your judgement. There is a lot to watch and process on the field that you must react to to not be faked out by all the misdirection the other team will throw at you. I played with a few guys that went pro, some even have Super Bowl Rings (plural). They too saw no place for rage on the field. Maybe the coach tries to get lame players to play better by instilling rage but the best get their adrenaline rush from the competition and keep a level head on the field. They will tell you most of the time they got beat emotion got to them or something else to throw their mental game off. Rage throws your mental game off. How many people exhibit poor judgement when they are angry? I guess some manage to control race to use it without making mistakes on the field but so much of football is mental it is a rarity.

Its the inverse, think of all that you'd have accomplished if you learned to harness anger and use it for its adrenaline.

Like I said my adrenaline rush was huge and it had nothing to do with anger. Put me on a track and I was at best average speed but give that track star a football and I would run him down every time. I ran as hard as I could in track but it didn't get my adrenaline pumping. Step on the football field and my adrenaline flowed. Let me tell you getting an adrenaline rush without rage or fear is much more enjoyable than needing a negative emotion to get it. I am sorry you never got to experience that because there is nothing like it. I guess that's why adrenaline junkies do the crazy stuff they do.

All of that leading me to believe you were in a very small town/city where you played, because that kind of "insubordination" would have you off the team anywhere in the midwest with at least a modest sized population, let alone where I grew up lol.

What insubordination? Because I wouldn't get mad and could play better than most if not all without getting mad. The coach pulled me for 2 plays to right my ship and it did. He yelled at me are you ready to go in. I replied in a low focused and determined voice yes. I remember chuckling I hope not out loud to the bizarre behavior that he expected to get my head in the game. I hear the assistant coach questioned putting me in because I was so calm but the coach turned to the assistant coach and said, watch what he does now. I was one of the team leaders. If I continued to play bad I would have kept me on the wood but I definitely would have put me back in to see if I played like I usually do. The day came where I had yo choose between my love of hunting and my love of football if I wanted to play at the top of the game. For me it was no contest. I don't need their team to play football and I love hunting more. They kept trying to woo me to rejoin the team but they wanted all my free time. I was already better than almost everyone on the team will ever be so if they didn't want to cut my practice or change the time so I could hunt as much as I needed to I wanted to hunt. The old coach did what was necessary to field the best team but the new coach was on a power trip so no more trips to the regionals, hell they weren't even state champions any more. By the way I grew up just outside one of the biggest cities in the country (top ten in size). I still played football and some of those sandlot games were brutal. If the ground was frozen the ambulance often had to be summoned. No p*ssy pads and those guys were much tougher than anybody on our regional championship team.

Unless you know of some way to produce adrenaline without Anger or Fear, your argument is wholly invalid.

I rarely get angry or afraid so my adrenaline has always come from other stimuli. I hang with big guys not by design. They must either be gentle giants or end up in jail because if they end up in a fight they will severely hurt people and the judge will put him in jail as a threat to society. It is a necessity that big guys learn to control anger. If they lose it they have the power to kill people. I have a friend that was recruited to be a pro fullback while still in high school before blowing his knee out. He is 6' 8" 300+ pounds and not an ounce of fat on him. He was in a car once and got pissed and banged his fist down on the dash once. It was cratered to the floorboard of the car. If he had done that to a person it would have crushed him. I am the little guy though my lack of feeling any pain has caused me to be much stronger than the others. They all stop doing because of the pain but I would do things after they would stop because the muscles hurt. This made me more powerful than just about anyone. I was taken to the gym once. I was lifting less than anyone but the trainer was focused on me. When I asked why he was focused on me when everyone else was lifting more he said, Because they are all using proper lifting technique but you are lifting unbelievable amounts with absolutely no lifting technique. He wanted to turn me into his star weightlifter. I always felt exercise for no reason was silly. Get out and do things. Push that high swamp grass at a near run to jump the deer before they crawl around you. Put that car top boat up on the wagon by yourself , carry the big outboard and fuel tank and go fishing or duck hunting. If a hurricane is stalled offshore, hell if its stalled a tropical depression is enough, go to body surf the giant waves and swim for 12 hours straight without your feet touching the bottom. Ski all day or if its summer get the speed boat out and crack the whip with a triple length tow rope and see just how much faster than the speed boats 50 MPH you can go. Snorkel so that you spend 70% of the day underwater. Get the canoe out and paddle like a wild man all day. Shoot your 90# bow. Till the soil. Practice running through the dense woods sliding under deadfalls and hurdling tree trunks in case the game warden or police ever try to catch you. There are tons of ways to get exercise that is more rewarding than exercise for exercise sake.

[RobinHood21]

I take it you've never played a physical sport in your life?

Anger and Rage is what they teach you to build to perform, and maintain focus.

You keep insinuating that Anger is a bad thing, my guess is you haven't the slightest clue what Anger truly is.

You truly are laughable Exoter... Everything is a pissing contest with you...And you lose again...

I played baseball since I was 4 and I still play to this day. Hardball. Not slow-pitch. A couple of years ago my team won the NABA National Championship. I played two years of JUCO ball in SoCal. I was a shortstop. (Which generally is the most difficult position on the field other then catching) Pitching is more difficult but it is not everyday. I played football since I was 13 through senior year in high school. My junior year we won the state championship. Senior year we went back to the championship game but were defeated. I played two-ways also. I was a punt returner and kick returner. I snapped on PAT's. I made the State All-Star game my senior year. Lastly I played Basketball since I was 10, though to senior year in high school... Really, when you say that you played HS football that means nothing to me... Everyone and their mother played HS football. Two-ways too. LOL. Just like T3 stated. Getting pumped is one thing. But angry. Not very often. I was too good to get angry. I wasn't very good at basketball (only 6'1" might be why) and I still didn't get angry because I didn't give a blank about basketball. My focus was elsewhere. There was no reason for me to be angry. I put most of my energy to being focused and confident in my abilities and hard work.

Same goes for BJ... I am confident in the work I have put in. Why get angry at losses that I'm confident will eventually come back?

[jaygruden]

Am I the only one who finds this thread extremely comical? Someone should create a skit of this entire exchange and put it on Comedy Central! It's better than an Abbot and Costello routine:-):-):-)


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[ahjooma]

In Asia, Zen philosophy is used in sports.
like when I was in an award winning badminton team, I would get
furious if I missed a shot. I would use meditation, very short, to control
my breathing. Then I would make the winning shot to take
our team to the national championship.

jk. I can't play a sport to save my life.