Koolipto: How long does it take?

[Koolipto]

I am new to BJ, but have worked very hard to get up to speed. This includes about 60 hours of drills and playing on Casino Verite and 54 casino hours (49 of these hours attempting to count). Yet, I still don?t seem to be sharp enough to consistently keep the count (KO). I have trouble even adding up my own draw cards while on a soft hand (while maintaining the count). Give me a split with double opportunities and forget the count ? the ?I?m going to make or lose big? overwhelms me. In short, I can only keep count consistently in a mundane shoe. The result is that I am doing well at +1, +2 but have frequently lost track by the good counts at the end of the shoe. I have also caught myself making a few basic strategy mistakes (not because I don?t know them but because of rushed decisions). And what concerns me most is that I did not see much improvement in my most recent trip. Fortunately, I am right on top of my EV (1 to 8 spread), which means SD has been good to me (so far), even though I am only spreading 1 to 5 usually.

So, the basic question is this: Are there some people who are otherwise smart enough, but just don?t think fast enough to do this? Assuming that?s the case and I?m one of those, is it safe for me to keep on this way ? spreading very light and flat betting or leaving when I lose track? Or, is it to be expected that I would need a lot more practice than this to gain reasonable proficiency?

[Ouchez]

> I am new to BJ, but have worked very hard to
> get up to speed. This includes about 60
> hours of drills and playing on Casino Verite
> and 54 casino hours (49 of these hours
> attempting to count). Yet, I still don?t
> seem to be sharp enough to consistently keep
> the count (KO). I have trouble even adding
> up my own draw cards while on a soft hand
> (while maintaining the count). Give me a
> split with double opportunities and forget
> the count ? the ?I?m going to make or lose
> big? overwhelms me. In short, I can only
> keep count consistently in a mundane shoe.
> The result is that I am doing well at +1, +2
> but have frequently lost track by the good
> counts at the end of the shoe. I have also
> caught myself making a few basic strategy
> mistakes (not because I don?t know them but
> because of rushed decisions). And what
> concerns me most is that I did not see much
> improvement in my most recent trip.
> Fortunately, I am right on top of my EV (1
> to 8 spread), which means SD has been good
> to me (so far), even though I am only
> spreading 1 to 5 usually.

> So, the basic question is this: Are there
> some people who are otherwise smart enough,
> but just don?t think fast enough to do this?
> Assuming that?s the case and I?m one of
> those, is it safe for me to keep on this way
> ? spreading very light and flat betting or
> leaving when I lose track? Or, is it to be
> expected that I would need a lot more
> practice than this to gain reasonable
> proficiency?

play to get *Skillz*. You should also use cancellation techniques, you may be already. I happen to think that there are a vast majority of those that attempt to be AP's and just can't get up to speed, or can but can't maintain the pace for long. Give yourself alot more time, in the casino, at very low limit tables.

Regards,
Ouchez.

[Koolipto]

> play to get *Skillz*. You should also use
> cancellation techniques, you may be already.
> I happen to think that there are a vast
> majority of those that attempt to be AP's
> and just can't get up to speed, or can but
> can't maintain the pace for long. Give
> yourself alot more time, in the casino, at
> very low limit tables.

Thanks for the suggestions. I am not sure what you mean by cancellation techniques. The only reference to anything close I could find on the web was to the Labouchere progressive betting system. Could you explain more precisely what you meant? Thanks in advance.

> Regards,
> Ouchez.

[Sun Runner]

Can you ride a bicycle?

I'm a little old [] but I hopped on a bike last week for the first time in ten years maybe and guess what, it was like yesterday. I didn't have to give a second thought about staying upright .. it just happens. Probably the same for you.

That is how second nature card counting needs to become. It is almost a sub-routine running in your brain that you are almost not aware of.

Personally, I think some people have a better feel for the game and what it takes to play effectively than others. But everybody can ride a bicycle.

For some, it may just take more time to learn.

Immerse yourself in it. Somebody once said when you automatically start counting down the license plates on the cars ahead of you -you are getting there!

Good luck.

[Parker]

1. Practice
2. Practice
3. Practice

There does seem to be a certain aptitude that some people have for card counting. It has nothing to do with intelligence or conventional learning abilities. Some people take to counting like a fish to water, others have to work harder at it.

Nonetheless, I believe that nearly anyone can learn to count cards accurately, if they are willing to put in sufficient hours practice. It is impossible to put a time limit on this. You practice until you can do it on a near-subconscious level, however long that may take, be it days or months.

There are a few tricks. Learn to watch for pairs of high and low value cards that cancel each other out.

There are several methods that can be used to practice. The time-honored one is simply counting down a deck. Do this until you can do it effortlessly, then do it 2, 3, or even four cards at a time.

This is the 21st century, so avail yourself of the technology. You have Casino Verite, so use it. In addition to practicing playing, do not overlook the package of drilling programs included.

Finally, there is no substitute for live-fire casino play. Find a low stakes game and put in some hours. Play basic strategy and flat-bet the table minimum until you can consistently make it through a shoe without losing the count.

Only at that point should you start worrying about indices and bet ramping.

There is no shortcut or quick easy fix. Remember, if it was easy, everyone would be doing it.

[Don Schlesinger]

> Thanks for the suggestions. I am not sure
> what you mean by cancellation techniques.

Parker touched on it below. Since there are five high-value cards and five low ones in Hi-Lo, the most common pair of cards you see is one high and one low. They cancel to zero, and you should be able to recognize these combinations and not even bother to reckon them in your mind. It's as if they don't exist.

Later, you can scan a whole table like that. You might see two high cards in someone's hand at, say, first base, while someone in the middle of the table has two low cards. mentally, they just cancel out, and you don't bother to first say -2 and then later +2. Again, it's as if all four cards didn't exist.

After a while, using these techniques, you should be able to scan the entire table effortlessly.

Don

[Wolverine]

Koolipto--the advice you are getting here is priceless. I only wish I had it earlier in my career! I learned from a family how to play basic strategy first (late 80's, early 90's). I like the advice above of playing under casino conditions, flat betting the table minimum ($2 to $5), playing basic strategy (BS), and try to count. The BS should be ingrained from practice at a computer or home game so that it is second nature to you (I had to use live casino play instead, but it was fun and a great reason to go on vacation!). If you don't have to think about BS, then counting becomes your main concern on your casino field trips. Of course, the advice to learn counting at home by counting a deck, using software, etc... is where you start, but the field trips will become invaluable! Nothing like LIVE casino BJ to teach you the flow of a game!

When you can play BS, keep the count, and still feel like you are not rushed, then you are ready to take it live and use your skills. Start using the count to help you leave a table, place waiting bets, or ramp up. [I am here right now, just beginning to throw the Ill18 into my playing regimen.] Then learn the Illustrious 18 from BJA3 and begin to use them to alter your plays, however, be aware, YOU NEED TO BE ON AUTOPILOT WITH EVERYTHING ELSE BEFORE YOU DO THIS! This is because you are going to need an act to pull this off, and if you feel rushed, confused, or otherwise unsure, your act will fail and you may receive an unwelcome greeting from the casino.

I will give an example from my last trip: All BS players KNOW that you hit 12 vs a dealer 3. Most dealers can see that I play BS, so to NOT hit a 12 vs the 13, they would know that I am making a mistake. You have to sell the mistake as being a natural or intentional mistake. In this case, the count was at least +2 TC [probably more] (2D, DAS, S17) and I had a 4 unit wager out. The cards hadn't been going my way, the dealers were making noises about how the table was cursed, etc... So, I used their own tales against them. I asked, "I'm supposed to hit 12 vs. a 3, right?" The dealer said, "I don't think so." She didn't know BS! But the floor supervisor is right there and she pipes in, "Yes you are!" So now, BS says to hit and the count says not to. So I whip out my BS reference card and check, yep, hit 12 vs the 3. But, I announce, "The cards have been so crappy today, I'm going to shake it up and NOT hit when I'm supposed to! Gotta try something to get things turned around!" I won the hand, but I almost died when the hit card was a 9 (but on the dealer's 13, not my 12!). I then sailed along to make up most of my losses after that.

The ACT helped me in many ways: even though I am a 100% competent BS player, the pit and dealer think I still don't know BS inside and out. It allowed me to alter my BS play without drawing attention to my 4 unit bet. It provided cover that I am a "gut" player, rather than an AP. And I play against this pit and crew routinely, so any cover I can get is great!

As for me, I am working hard on getting ALL of the Ill-18 into my game. I tend to play SD and DD, so surrender isn't an option for me, but if you play shoes, using the Fab 4 is priceless! The insurance wager index has been a lifesaver as well! I once had an asian dealer say to me (in her broken English), "It's like you know what is coming!" Let's just say I packed up the chips and left shortly after that--"Time to meet a friend--gotta go!"

Practice, read, absorb the informationn from this site, play for low stakes, and build the skills needed to play BJ. Good luck!

[Sun Runner]

I have decks of cards all over the place.

In my brief case.
In my glove box in the car.
Under the couch in the den.
Over the toilet.

Anywhere my daily routine takes me where I have the potential for some boring downtime, I probably have access to cards. I'll just grab them and start counting them down.

Sometimes singles, sometimes doubles, some times three or four at a time. I make up little games and race against myself. I'll count watching football on TV -I try to focus on both listening and counting just for the distraction.

There are a million ways to work in good practice.

I have cards in my garage where I work out. In between sets (usually 60 seconds) I'll count down a deck!

But like Parker said, nothing beats doing it. Save your nickles and go play. Don't worry about raising your bets [ unless you sense a really high count -then bet two! ] Just focus on keeping the count.

And don't get bummed if/when you lose a litle money while flat betting and learning. You are playing a small negative EV game; accept it. Education isn't free.

Make it fun.

[ShoelessD]

> So, the basic question is this: Are there
> some people who are otherwise smart enough,
> but just don?t think fast enough to do this?
>

Yes, is the answer. An affinity for mathematics, and excellent memory retention are basic requirements. High IQ is not, although it would not be a detrement either.

People that excell in their chosen fields of endevour are a small percent of the people who participate. Professional athletes, CEO's, artists, etc. AP play, or winning professional blackjack is no different.

The negative fact that rarely gets paid attention to, is that even when you perfect your skills, they can be negated by poor penetration, bad games, and being asked to leave.

You have to decide if the labor is worth it.

[Koolipto]

> Parker touched on it below. Since there are
> five high-value cards and five low ones in
> Hi-Lo, the most common pair of cards you see
> is one high and one low. They cancel to
> zero, and you should be able to recognize
> these combinations and not even bother to
> reckon them in your mind. It's as if they
> don't exist.

Thanks for clearing that up for me. I am doing that now (I've been calling it netting to myself). I can do it fast enough most of the time, although sometimes the brain seems to just freeze up. But I'll get there.

> Later, you can scan a whole table like that.
> You might see two high cards in someone's
> hand at, say, first base, while someone in
> the middle of the table has two low cards.
> mentally, they just cancel out, and you
> don't bother to first say -2 and then later
> +2. Again, it's as if all four cards didn't
> exist.

I'm not even close on this. My first concept of how fast this should/can be done was the drills on CV. Right now I look at that table and am amazed that anyone can do that.

> After a while, using these techniques, you
> should be able to scan the entire table
> effortlessly.

> Don

[Koolipto]

> Koolipto--the advice you are getting here is
> priceless.

Thank you to everyone for the helpful suggestions. I am encouraged but understand much better what kind of commitment this will have to take. Koo